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BMWGeoff
BMWGeoff GRM+ Memberand New Reader
11/30/20 8:20 a.m.

I just picked up this 944 rolling chassis for CDN$1k (about $770 bald eagles) including the tow. It's an abandoned EV conversion, and is about as close to rust free as you can get with a car that's lived in Ontario for close to 40 years.

Haven't decided what direction to go with it yet, but it'll be a long-term project for me and my son (who's currently 2.5 years old). Hopefully it'll be done before he's old enough to drive it.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ALaNzGVrHHQzgxoU9

adam525i (Forum Supporter)
adam525i (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
11/30/20 12:17 p.m.

That's a nice looking shell, should make for a pretty decent car once it is put back together

mr2s2000elise
mr2s2000elise UltraDork
11/30/20 12:22 p.m.

Beautiful car! only 13.5 years more to finish it

BMWGeoff
BMWGeoff GRM+ Memberand New Reader
12/1/20 7:19 a.m.

Right now the real question is do I put a Porsche engine in it? Swap in an LS like everyone else would? Or find something a little more unusual...

thedoc
thedoc GRM+ Memberand Reader
12/1/20 7:24 a.m.

I saw one with an ls swap that was awesome.  Just crazy to walk by it and wonder about the sound coming out of it.  Once the conversion is done, how are the swapped cars to live with, maintenance wise?

akylekoz
akylekoz SuperDork
12/1/20 7:27 a.m.

In reply to BMWGeoff :

M50, M52 BMW that's what I want in it.

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) PowerDork
12/1/20 7:40 a.m.

Personally, an LS powered 944 is appealing, but it also entails a fair bit of work. You need to adapt the engine to the 944 torque tube, which isn't out of the question with Corvettes using a similar layout. How much torque can the 944 transaxle take? If it isn't strong enough what do you replace it with. Any ls with a conventional transmission ends up with tunnel surgery and interior modifications and you still may have to engineer a beefier rear end. Finding a parts car to donate a Porsche drive train might be the easier option. The cars are old enough that you could import something from the US.

Since you don't seem to be in a rush some research of various swaps and the associated Canadian costs would be in order. I'll just throw another swap idea out.....what about a Honda four cylinder and retain the 944 transaxle?

Edit: .....and what can you get past the vehicle inspection criteria in Ontario? Nohome may have some insights into Ontario law from his Molvo build.

BMWGeoff said:

Right now the real question is do I put a Porsche engine in it? Swap in an LS like everyone else would? Or find something a little more unusual...

Boost Bros inline 5 swap kit

BMWGeoff
BMWGeoff GRM+ Memberand New Reader
12/1/20 8:25 a.m.
DeadSkunk (Warren) said:

Personally, an LS powered 944 is appealing, but it also entails a fair bit of work. You need to adapt the engine to the 944 torque tube, which isn't out of the question with Corvettes using a similar layout. How much torque can the 944 transaxle take? If it isn't strong enough what do you replace it with. Any ls with a conventional transmission ends up with tunnel surgery and interior modifications and you still may have to engineer a beefier rear end. Finding a parts car to donate a Porsche drive train might be the easier option. The cars are old enough that you could import something from the US.

Since you don't seem to be in a rush some research of various swaps and the associated Canadian costs would be in order. I'll just throw another swap idea out.....what about a Honda four cylinder and retain the 944 transaxle?

Edit: .....and what can you get past the vehicle inspection criteria in Ontario? Nohome may have some insights into Ontario law from his Molvo build.

As near as I can tell, an LS will require upgrading to a 944 Turbo or S2 transaxle, which could be pricey, so keeping power in the 200-250hp range is probably best. I think an S2K engine might be best, though a rotary might be funny too, neither have enough torque to destroy the trans.

It won't be too difficult to get it on the road. The car has always been registered in Ontario, so all it needs to do is pass a safety inspection, but the powertrain doesn't affect that (unless it's pissing fuel or oil).

adam525i (Forum Supporter)
adam525i (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
12/1/20 9:08 a.m.

In reply to wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L) (Forum Supporter) :

That's a nice looking kit and seems like decent value. If this was a year ago my uncle was looking to get rid of his UR-S4 in Guelph for not a lot, it would've been a great motor for this.

yupididit
yupididit GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
12/1/20 10:27 a.m.

20vt audi i5?

New York Nick
New York Nick GRM+ Memberand Reader
12/1/20 10:39 a.m.

how about a GM Ecotec 2.0?

Edit:

Maybe that is a terrible idea, seems like they stopped offering the rear drive turnkey deal. Also looks like they are super expensive....

Stefan (Forum Supporter)
Stefan (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/1/20 10:53 a.m.
yupididit said:

20vt audi i5?

I was going to suggest this as its the closest to a "bolt-in" for the 924/944 chassis.  It isn't a bolt-in, but with the right combo of parts its easier than nearly any swap other than using an LS kit from Texas Performance Concepts.

This Lucky Dog/ChampCar team uses a 20vT in their 924 Turbo:

https://www.facebook.com/UBootRennenWerks/

and they've won a couple of championships with it.

The trick is that you need the 924 Turbo bellhousing to bolt to the 944 torque tube, not impossible to find, but not exactly common.

As for the LS swap, the transaxles are strong enough provided you avoid drag racing.  Adding some bracing, extra cooling and a proper LSD helps them lives through the abuse (the GT40 and Lambo replica folks use them behind V8s and V12's in their projects and many are driven hard).  The Turbo and S2 transaxles are certainly stronger, but the gearing isn't often ideal.

I suspect Docwyte will chime in shortly to discuss his journey with LS-swapping 944's.  Mostly around cooling, which was a challenge for him due to his elevation and general weather patterns, but its a valid concern.

BMWGeoff
BMWGeoff GRM+ Memberand New Reader
12/1/20 1:12 p.m.

The more I read about the 07K, the more I'm liking the idea.

chandler
chandler UltimaDork
12/1/20 2:11 p.m.

How about an atlas? It's pretty tall though.

Stefan (Forum Supporter) said:
yupididit said:

20vt audi i5?

I was going to suggest this as its the closest to a "bolt-in" for the 924/944 chassis.  It isn't a bolt-in, but with the right combo of parts its easier than nearly any swap other than using an LS kit from Texas Performance Concepts.

This Lucky Dog/ChampCar team uses a 20vT in their 924 Turbo:

https://www.facebook.com/UBootRennenWerks/

and they've won a couple of championships with it.

The trick is that you need the 924 Turbo bellhousing to bolt to the 944 torque tube, not impossible to find, but not exactly common.

As for the LS swap, the transaxles are strong enough provided you avoid drag racing.  Adding some bracing, extra cooling and a proper LSD helps them lives through the abuse (the GT40 and Lambo replica folks use them behind V8s and V12's in their projects and many are driven hard).  The Turbo and S2 transaxles are certainly stronger, but the gearing isn't often ideal.

I suspect Docwyte will chime in shortly to discuss his journey with LS-swapping 944's.  Mostly around cooling, which was a challenge for him due to his elevation and general weather patterns, but its a valid concern.

I don't know much about VAG stuff (blush), but isn't thst the same, or very similar to the VW 5 in the Boost Bros kit?

Stefan (Forum Supporter)
Stefan (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/1/20 4:43 p.m.
wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L) (Forum Supporter) said:
Stefan (Forum Supporter) said:
yupididit said:

20vt audi i5?

I was going to suggest this as its the closest to a "bolt-in" for the 924/944 chassis.  It isn't a bolt-in, but with the right combo of parts its easier than nearly any swap other than using an LS kit from Texas Performance Concepts.

This Lucky Dog/ChampCar team uses a 20vT in their 924 Turbo:

https://www.facebook.com/UBootRennenWerks/

and they've won a couple of championships with it.

The trick is that you need the 924 Turbo bellhousing to bolt to the 944 torque tube, not impossible to find, but not exactly common.

As for the LS swap, the transaxles are strong enough provided you avoid drag racing.  Adding some bracing, extra cooling and a proper LSD helps them lives through the abuse (the GT40 and Lambo replica folks use them behind V8s and V12's in their projects and many are driven hard).  The Turbo and S2 transaxles are certainly stronger, but the gearing isn't often ideal.

I suspect Docwyte will chime in shortly to discuss his journey with LS-swapping 944's.  Mostly around cooling, which was a challenge for him due to his elevation and general weather patterns, but its a valid concern.

I don't know much about VAG stuff (blush), but isn't thst the same, or very similar to the VW 5 in the Boost Bros kit?

I don't actually know, so I did some quick research:

http://forum.irozmotorsport.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=244&sid=fca3c6277a69538e1fa59a7746c94a5e%22%20onclick=%22window.open(this.href);return%20false;

https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turbo-and-turbo-s-forum/803341-vw-audi-07k-2-5l-20v-i5-swap-thread.html

So there's some similarities to the older style AAN/3B/7A engines, but the newer engines weigh less and of course are a bit more complicated.  The bellhousings might be very similar, but one anecdote doesn't make that a confirmation.  It certainly is an interesting potential solution, especially compared to the expense of the 1.8t swap kit that didn't seem terribly complete.

yupididit
yupididit GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
12/2/20 3:52 a.m.

The VW 1.8t is an option as well. 

jh36
jh36 GRM+ Memberand Reader
12/2/20 5:36 a.m.

In reply to Stefan (Forum Supporter) :

Hey Stefan, I have been quiet on the 944 front, but I still have the box of bellhousing and bits I got from you. I got incredibly busy and consumed with business this year for obvious reasons. 
The 944 parts and cars are all sold or given to a good home. Sorry for the mild hi-jack, but if anyone can make use of these, I'm happy to sell. 

jh36
jh36 GRM+ Memberand Reader
12/2/20 5:48 a.m.

I pondered this very question for quite a while. I wanted to keep Porsche dna...and there are too many ls swaps around me to feel I've accomplished anything new. 
I pointed toward the 20vt I5 at first and got the parts to do the swap. (Thanks again Stefan)
then, the lure of available 1.8t's became too great and I went to that shiny object. 
In the end, I made a hard left and ended up with an LS project in a tube frame and a gen1 Camaro body...for me, a radical departure from normal life. 
A good 944 is a well balanced, wonderful thing. Nothing handles like one, and I think with mild, modern, dependable engine upgrades, (ie 1.8t), you have a winner.  185hp-200hp would be my goal for a nationally competitive race car in NASA's st5. Just writing this makes me want to build one again. Dang it. 

vwfreek
vwfreek Reader
12/2/20 2:05 p.m.
wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L) (Forum Supporter) said:

I don't know much about VAG stuff (blush), but isn't thst the same, or very similar to the VW 5 in the Boost Bros kit?

The VW and Audi 5 cyl engines are different. The Audi 5 cyl dates back to the late '70s and has the same bellhousing pattern as the Porsche 924, also Audi V6 and V8 engines. The VW 5 cyl is a newer design, it's half of a Lamborgini V10 (not really, but they have similarities), the bellhousing pattern is shared with VW 4 cyl engines.

Edit: There's a guy in the UK working on a cast aluminium bellhousing for the 07K and VW 4 cyl engines. Looks like pricing will be comparable to the Boost Brother's bellhousing. https://www.facebook.com/groups/porsche944parts/permalink/1769690623196074

BMWGeoff
BMWGeoff GRM+ Memberand New Reader
12/9/20 7:34 a.m.

Did a lot of reading in the last week, and I've settled on a Boost Brothers 07K swap. Gonna keep it naturally aspirated for the time being.

 

Now it's time to start collecting parts.

BMWGeoff
BMWGeoff GRM+ Memberand New Reader
2/18/21 2:53 p.m.

If anyone wants to follow the slow-paced build, I've created a Facebook page detailing the progress (or lack thereof as the case may be).

 

https://www.facebook.com/lastplaceracing

obsolete
obsolete GRM+ Memberand Reader
2/18/21 4:04 p.m.

That's an interesting engine choice I don't know much about. I'll be following. Have you figured out a donor vehicle yet?

BMWGeoff
BMWGeoff GRM+ Memberand New Reader
2/22/21 7:21 a.m.

In reply to obsolete :

I'm going to get it from a junkyard. The engines are CDN$250-400 for a good, running motor. Ideally I want one from an 08-10 Jetta/Golf/Rabbit/Beetle based on some reading about timing chain and oil pump designs.

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