1st Track Car Advice - GTI MK5

Hello all, 

I'm a hot rod guy, lifelong race fan and now looking to get into track days at my local spot after going to auto-cross and a couple of other track days. With budget in mind I'm considering the GTI MK5 as it seems reliable, appears to be affordable and readily available from what I see on Facebook. They also appear to be drivable  to the track as a hauler in lieu of needing a trailer. 

Are these You Tube video guys on target with claims of the MK5 as good starter car? How is it with consumable's and how is the VW track community as I see a lot of BMW's, Miata's, Vettes and Honda's at my local track? 

I'm budgeting around $4K o $5K for initial purchase and would like to take upgrades from there in phases like I would with a hot rod - tires, suspension first then moving to engine bay and into interior last. 

Any feedback, advice, lessons learned would be appreciated, I'm in the homework phase and would be looking to get rolling over the next few months. 

Thank you 

CP21

Maybe repost in the Grassroots Motorsports sub forum for more hits. This sub forum is more about the actual builds post purchase. 

Welcome to the foum, and of course we can help.

We have a Mk7 project car that might help as it’s prepped for track. Find the updates here. 

While this video that we produced might also help answer some of your questions.

Thanks GTwannaB and David. I will try a new post and take a look at the video. I'm heading to the track this Saturday to talk some of the drivers to learn more. I'm taking baby steps to learn. 

CP21

It Begins!

I found my car and have it back from its initial shop inspection. Fortunately there were no major issues with it so now begins tear down to pull off some weight and what I think are good first swings at upgrades to get on track. I'm thinking improving the brakes, tires, adding a couple of bolt-on fire extinguishers and a bolt in cage are where I should start. Stopping, grip and safety being the key components of what I'm thinking. 

Any thoughts on initial brake and tire setups for a track rookie would be appreciated as I see brake kits ranging from a few hundred to a few thousand dollars. Tires are all over the place and cages are personal but cost driven thing.

I'd like to try and keep these adds to less than $5K if possible if there are suggestions out there.

For tires I'm thinking I'll need a street/track approach as I'll be driving the car to the track and then back home.

Excited to hear any comments that come, I'm enjoying this new car journey!

Thank you 

CP21 

Since you'll be driving it to the track, a streetable tire that can handle rain well (so you don't die on the way there, during, or back) is a pretty high priority to me unless you can fit a full set of track tires and wheels in the hatch. I've seen it done, and it looks miserable. But it can be done for some surprising vehicles (E46 and BRZ for example). If you do end up driving there on the same tires you'll be tracking, the Conti ECS is a solid starting point. 

Tires will drive the brake decision. It isn't a terribly fast car, it's fairly light, and the tires may be streetable (point above), so there's zero sense in spending big money on a brake system that can lock up slicks repeatedly. Rotors don't have to be fancy - just avoid fully drilled since they crack. Slotted or dimpled are fine. Heck, Spec Miata runs smooth rotors and those will be running much faster lap times, especially at first. Pads are driven by similar logic. If it is a pad you'll be driving on the street, you may want to consider dust and squeal. My track pads (GLoc) are absolutely terrible on the street from a noise perspective. I much preferred EBCs for that. You just want something that works well and is repeatable. Super agreesive pads may play less nicely with ABS, but I cannot speak to your specific car for that. 

So "best" depends on the big picture, but to start with, the bar doesn't need to be very high at all. 

From the above-linked mk7 articles:

"The stock brakes actually coped fairly well with hot laps on stock tires, but overheated once we added stickier tires and more power. As an easy first upgrade, we decided to just improve the pads and rotors and see what happens."

You can definitely get by with the stock brakes for a bit while you learn the car (with of course upgrading the pads and fluid). My stock 2013 Jetta GLI did great with just a set of Powerstop Track Day pad/rotor package up front from Rockauto, and they were cheap to boot. I also upgraded the front brake caliper Bushings to the solid brass Bushings made by Tyrolsport just for peace of mind (and they're stupid easy to throw on while you're in there). Once you're ready to upgrade, there's a good few OEM+ options out there. The Porsche 986 4-Piston calipers are a direct bolt on using a different rotor (the exact rotor details escape me but there kits out there). There's also a way to adapt the Touareg/Cayenne 6-piston calipers but I didn't like what I could find for rotor options on that one. Tires wise, I ran 225/45/17 Maxxis Victra VR-1's and the car absolutely stuck like glue but I did get a separate set of cheap audi wheels to mount them on so I could run my stock wheels/all-seasons off the track. Was keeping up with a lot faster cars albeit on a fairly short track (Blackhawk Farms raceway). 

Once you are comfortable with your car, seek out instruction in some form. I dropped 4 seconds by casually riding with someone who knew what they were doing on a parade lap and watching their line. 

if you're on Facebook there's also a "VWRacers" group with some good member feedback as well.  

It isn't clear to me exactly what you bought (edit: MK5 GTI... duh), but generally speaking, the stickier the tires, the more aggressive brakes you need.

Job 1: flush out all the fluid that's in the reservoir and lines and replace it with new fluid. You don't have to go crazy here--just get something with a sufficiently-high boiling point and call it a day. Brand-new Prestone is probably better than 8 year old performance fluid at this point--you don't want to find yourself very suddenly with 0 pedal pressure, and no ability to stop.

I recommend holding off on non-safety upgrades until after you do a track day or two. (Like horsepower upgrades, K&N filters, lowered suspension, etc.)

Also, stay away from slicks for now. DOT tires are best for beginners. This magazine reviews tires for us pretty frequently. 

Im not sure I would be adding a bolt in cage at this stage.

When you go to a cage, you need to look at it as a system.  Cage should have 5 or 6 point harnesses to keep you from smacking the cage in the event of an incident.  5 or 6 point belts should have a seat capable of achieving the correct geometry for the belts to work properly.  Doing only part of this can make the car severely LESS safe.

Furthermore, Bolt in cages suck.  They have all the drawbacks of a weld in cage (need all the corresponding safety restraints) AND they are generally designed to be possible to fit in and out of the car.  This means that they typically are NOT close to the body of the car (compromise), they generally wont pass any safety standards of almost every race series, they are not nearly as strong as a properly designed welded in cage.

Until you are ready to drive near 10/10, get good tires, get good brake pads, get good brake fluid, play around with the alignment.  Once those things are working well, upgrade the next thing that is annoying about the car (suspension too soft, understeer / oversteer, not good enough camber, etc).  

Where are you, regionally? Are you close to any race tracks? We might be able to help you find some events or clubs to get started with.

Looks like the OP is from Lacey, Washington.

In reply to confuZion3,

Thank you. I got the MK5 and like your thoughts on fluid change. 

In reply to wvumtnbkr :

Correct, Lacey WA.

These guys covered it pretty well, but just to reiterate, I always tell my friends that their first "mods" should be a complete mechanical go-over:

• Make sure the brake fluid is fresh (as mentioned), the transmission & engine is fresh with good stuff if you don't know the age/providence, the tires aren't dry-rotted-500-tread-wear-messes, and the brakes have at least 50% pad left.   Wheel lug bolts/nuts thread in nice and clean without binding?   If you need new tires, get some good 200-300TW endurance tires from the list above.  They'll wear pretty nicely, be sporty but streetable.   If you need brakes, get Hawk HPS/EBC Yellow or Blue Stuff, something in that category.  Don't go into full on race pads yet.
• Go through the rest of car for a look over, are all the suspension bolts tight?   
• Any questionable previous owner mods going to rub through the air flow sensor wiring? 
• After that, seat time, seat time, and seat time are the next three mods, in that order. 

THEN, after that, you'll have a good enough baseline to figure out what direction you want to go and how much street manners you're willing to sacrifice.   If you're ever at the crossroads where you think "I can buy this suspension, but I'll have to skip the next two track days..."  go to the track days and don't get the suspension.

Welcome to the rabbit hole :)