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TurnerX19
TurnerX19 SuperDork
12/17/20 9:33 p.m.

Do the cam bearings for durability. I have a question. Does Sam add more crankshaft thrust bearings? As in a full circle on the flywheel side instead of the 1/2 circle that was stock. If not I would use a standard pressure plate on the clutch, as I saw a lot of crank thrust failures on these engines when they were relatively new cars. I second the comment about the lifters too, they are tiny, and that makes me shy of the extra rocker ratio.

Stu Lasswell
Stu Lasswell Reader
12/17/20 10:26 p.m.

The consensus thus far seems to be that the addition of cam bearings is prudent, and roller rockers could always be installed at a later date quite easily. As to crankshaft thrust bearings, I don't have an answer, but I have asked Mr Halkias to call me and I will include that to my inquiries.

JoeTR6
JoeTR6 Dork
12/18/20 10:44 a.m.
TurnerX19 said:

Do the cam bearings for durability. I have a question. Does Sam add more crankshaft thrust bearings? As in a full circle on the flywheel side instead of the 1/2 circle that was stock. If not I would use a standard pressure plate on the clutch, as I saw a lot of crank thrust failures on these engines when they were relatively new cars. I second the comment about the lifters too, they are tiny, and that makes me shy of the extra rocker ratio.

Good point.  I had Richard Good machine the rear main bearing cap for a second pinned bronze thrust washer.  That is certainly a weak area.

Stu Lasswell
Stu Lasswell Reader
12/20/20 7:10 p.m.

In reply to TurnerX19 :

When I talked to Sam Halkias on Friday I asked about the thrust bearings, and he felt that the thrust bearing failures were generally the result of people resting their left foot on the pedal, and the continuous pressure maybe due to the narrow foot-well and a lack of a dead pedal.  He says that he evaluates each block and crankshaft individually.  He also suggested that if I'm getting the cam bearings (recommended) then I should go ahead and get the GP3 camshaft.  He felt that the low and mid-range torque was not likely to be an issue but the better top end breathing and higher rev capability would be valuable.  It's true that my local autocross venue tends to run to long, higher speed courses and I do run out of revs or have to shift more than I like now with my TR3... an extra 5-600 rpm to work with would be great to have!

Stu Lasswell
Stu Lasswell Reader
12/21/20 3:55 p.m.

   To amend what I wrote the other day: I run out of rpm's on the TR3 because of low-profile 15" tires and a red-line of 5,000 rpm, forcing me to bounce off the rev-limiter or make the shift, only to down-shift a second or two later for the next corner.  The TVR (TR6) motor has a 5,500 rpm red-line, and the GP3 cam should raise that to an effective 6.000+ red-line.  So 500 more than normal TVR/TR6, a full 1,000 more than my TR3.  Man, I need a cam or taller rims/tires on the TR3.  I never had this problem out west, where the courses were typically about half as big!

Slow_M
Slow_M Reader
12/26/20 10:02 a.m.

In reply to Stu Lasswell :

I vote for a cam. (And whatever work is required to get that sweet four banger to over 6000rpm.)

Stu Lasswell
Stu Lasswell Reader
12/26/20 12:45 p.m.

In reply to Slow_M :

I went out for a drive in the TR3 yesterday (Christmas day) and took the revs up to see where the limiter actually kicked in, since I'm a bit too busy to look during an autocross.  Turns out it's shutting me down at 4,100-4,300 rpm!  This explains a lot,  I thought I had it set at 4,800rpm.  Unfortunately the adjuster on the Pertronix III module seems to be worn away to where I can't get ti to move. I'll call Pertronix next week, and if they can't help maybe go back to points!  If I ever end up pulling that motor, a hot cam and lightened flywheel are definitely in the plan.

Slow_M
Slow_M Reader
12/27/20 2:49 a.m.

There was a company called Allison, that made an optic trigger ignition. IIRC, that design and the manufacturing rights were sold to Crane. Maybe you can find one of those somewhere. Or a 123 distributor! 

Stu Lasswell
Stu Lasswell Reader
12/27/20 3:17 p.m.

In reply to Slow_M :

The Crane units are still around, but involve wiring in a separate box.  The Pertronix unit I have now is a new Lucas 25D distributor with the optical trigger, variable advance and triple discharge spark, plus the rev limiter, all in the distributor.  It's not perfect, but when it's working correctly, it works really well.All for a bit over $300.  I can replace the defective "innards" for about half that if the company won't do it for me, so that would still be hard to beat cost-wise.  I've been very impressed by the Pertronix products I've used so far, although there are many that cannot say the same.

Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter)
Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
12/27/20 7:26 p.m.

Yeah, you couldn't even really do a low end msd box like the streetfire and a points conversion for 150. Seems like a no brainer on tbe tr3

Slow_M
Slow_M Reader
12/29/20 10:23 a.m.

In reply to Stu Lasswell :

Makes good sense. 

Stu Lasswell
Stu Lasswell Reader
1/1/21 4:21 p.m.

    Not much happening here on the TVR front.  I did just order a high-torque starter from Ted Shumacher (TSI) as well as some custom length braided steel brake lines.  He has the best price around for the starters ($200) and should save me some coin and time by not ordering the brake lines from the U.K.  Once I have the flexible lines I hope to enlist duster (Michael) in making the new rigid lines.  I'm still leaning toward the Wilwood adj. bias brake master cyl. set-up over replacing the standard master cyl./booster set-up as original.  I still think the adjustability factor will be more useful than the lighter (but vague) feel of the booster.  

    On another note, regarding the TR3, I was able to order a new PerTronix Module, and they had a 10% discount with free shipping and no sales tax, so $136 total.  A new set of 200tw tires and I should be set for the 2021 autocross season starting in March!

Slow_M
Slow_M Reader
1/2/21 11:29 a.m.

In reply to Stu Lasswell :

Any progress is good progress!

Also, I’m glad to know Ted Schumacher is still in business. He’s one person I couldn’t remember when recommending TR engine builders. Thinking of which, any timeline? 

*edit* 

And then I remembered the other Triumph racer worth talking to! J.K. Jackson! 

Stu Lasswell
Stu Lasswell Reader
1/14/21 10:47 a.m.

   I know that I haven't posted anything in a while, but the next big thing is to get all the brake plumbing in, and that's waiting on the braided steel lines coming from TSI.  Then I can get the hard lines made up and installed.  I am planning on sending a line directly back to the rear brakes off the master, and one directly to a T-fitting for the front, thus eliminating the PDWA. That thing seems to be a frequent cause of headaches, so I'm simplifying both plumbing and wiring.  

   I did get the parking brake cleaned up and installed, so I could roll the chassis around without it getting away from me

Got it out in the sunshine. I had to do some re-arranging in the shop to get a friend's truck up on my lift. Made me realize how handy it is to play with little cars. My big "2 car garage" has four cars in it. Had to move TWO out to fit in his extended cab Chevy truck!

I also pulled the heater out of the body.  Looks familiar... I believe it's the same blower unit as found in Sprites/Midgets, but mounted horizontally so all the water can collect in the "squirrel cage" and motor! I have a source that says he has a spare for me, so now I just need the get the matrix re-cored or find a replacement. I believe that was sourced from the Ford Cortina, so rebuilding it might be the cheaper choice. Maybe the shop can find an alternate donor that will fit the housing.

   On another note, I got a new module for my PerTronix Ignitor III in my TR3.  I set the rev-limiter to 5,200 rpm... slightly over factory red-line, since its running a stock cam. No more power to be found above that, and it should be able to rev 8-900 rpm higher than I was getting with the old unit.  It was working fine (other than the limiter) so it can be my back-up. Maybe I can disable the limiter... if not it can still get me home if the other one fails.

   Next installment should see the brake plumbing in place!

Nigel_TVR
Nigel_TVR
1/18/21 11:45 a.m.

Hey Stu,

Good to see the progress you've made. Met up at Brits and Brew a while back. Keep moving forward.

 

Stu Lasswell
Stu Lasswell Reader
2/4/21 11:15 a.m.

   I drove the TVR the other day!  OK, not really... I  did  sit on it and rolled down the driveway, braking at the bottom with the hand brake. Apparently I can't download the video here as proof.  I had it out to move things around in the garage to access the lift.  Still, there's this shot for you...

I tucked one of the Triumph's wheels up under the TVR body... I think the Panasport-style wheels look just right for the TVR!  Also note that I put a drop-cloth over the frame under the TR3... NEVER put anything under a British car without protection.  Oil is already pooling in hollows under the engine!

    Things should be happening soon, though.  I got the new braided steel brake lines installed, got the roll of 3/16" tubing, and got a packet of basic brake fittings yesterday.  Looks like  we'll try to re-use the female fittings from the TVR and/or the donor TR6. Just waiting on another 3-way fitting.  The original one from the TVR was beyond salvage. When it arrives I can  try to get Michael over here and get it plumbed!

    I've also basically ordered a fresh (rebuilt) motor from Sam Halkias.  He has yet to get back to me with the final estimate, then I can make a payment and he can start.  I considered other builders (like Ted Shumacher) but they all needed to build my engine,  thus requiring two road trips... one to deliver my motor, another to pick up the finished motor. I save money with one road trip to Ohio to pick up a completed, tested, ready to install motor. There are plenty of engine builders here in NC, heart of NASCAR country, but I want someone intimately familiar with the Triumph motor.

Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter)
Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
2/4/21 12:09 p.m.

Looking forward to it! I like making lines.

TVR Scott (Forum Supporter)
TVR Scott (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
2/4/21 12:16 p.m.

Looks pretty good.  I ended up needing more than 25 ft of brake line for mine.  But you're doing the routing differently, so maybe no big deal?

I agree that the Panasport wheel looks great under that body shell!

Stu Lasswell
Stu Lasswell Reader
2/4/21 4:23 p.m.

In reply to TVR Scott (Forum Supporter) :

Thanks, Scott. I like that wheel style. Those are actually really cheap, Empi knock-offs in 15x5.5.  I'm still leaning toward 16x7 Konigs, mostly based on available tire selection. I got a 25' roll of tubing, but Michael has some extra.  I still plan on using a GoodParts Wilwood brake master cylinder assembly, so the final brake plumbing will have to wait until I see what's needed to join up with that once the body is reunited with the frame.

Stu Lasswell
Stu Lasswell Reader
2/20/21 10:37 p.m.

   Finally I have some progress to report. Michael (dusterbd13) came over today and helped (i.e. did all the work) plumb all the hard brake lines for the TVR!  Its great to have someone in the neighborhood with the correct tools and the knowhow to do the job correctly.

Here's Michael hard at work, although he says he enjoys creating brake lines.  He says he enjoys wiring cars, too... and I fully intend to exploit his generosity when that time comes!

   I also just today put a check in the mail to Sam Halkias. It was the down payment on an engine build, and it looks like I'm just about doubling what I originally expected to spend for it. I got caught up in that whole "more horsepower=more money" thing.  So, I'm all in, with cam bearings, the GP3 cam, needle bearing 1.65:1 alloy roller rockers, ATI Super damper, lightened flywheel... should be good for 160-170hp and maybe 6500rpm. Heck, a V-8 conversion would have cost less and made gobs more power, but I guess I'm just a die-hard Triumph fan. And this should be a killer car for my autocross class, at least until they bump me out.  Next I've got to send the distributor off to be rebuilt and re-curved for that engine and get the carbs rebuilt as well.

Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter)
Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
2/21/21 7:45 a.m.

No finished pictures without the fat bald guy uglying up the joint?

 

Had fun yesterday. Hopefully it still looks good this morning. 

JoeTR6
JoeTR6 Dork
2/21/21 8:30 a.m.

The autocross TR6 that I drove up to a couple of years ago had a similarly speced motor.  It reved up to 6200 RPM and pulled hard all the way.  You will need a rev limiter.  Trust me.  This thing is going to rock.

Stu Lasswell
Stu Lasswell Reader
2/23/21 10:13 p.m.

Sorry Duster,  those shiny copper 3/16" tubes just don't show up well enough to justify more photos.  And yes, Joe, I do hope this car will rock!

Stu Lasswell
Stu Lasswell Reader
3/26/21 10:30 p.m.

     It has been a while since I updated this thread, mostly because I haven't really been doing much. But, stuff is happening, just not here.  I sent the distributor off to Jeff at Advanced Distributors, as he has been highly touted as the expert on setting up the Lucas dizzy specifically for your motor.  Dealing with him kind of reminds me of the "Soup Nazi" on Seinfeld.  He wants you to send the dist. with a full fact sheet about the engine mods (good) and include your credit card data including the security # on the back (made me uncomfortable). Also, no price list or even an estimate. Did it anyway, and sent a text after 3 weeks just asking if he had received the package... said I sent it off "several weeks ago".  He responded immediately that he was "a bit insulted" as it had been only 2 weeks since he received it. But, it was done, and ready to ship. On the fact sheet I had asked if he could convert it to vacuum advance (smog-era TR6s used  vacuum retard), and I asked if he could send it directly to my engine builder (Sam Halkias, in Ohio). Now it's been 2 more weeks, there is a charge on my card  (a reasonable price) but I have no idea what he's done or where he is sending (or has sent) my part! I'm kind of afraid to ask him...he may say "No dizzy for you!" (again with the Seinfeld reference).

    Similar progress (or lack thereof) regarding my carbs.  The Zenith-Stromberg guru among the TR cogniscenti (6-Pack club) is a guy in MS named Ken who goes by "poolboy" online (no idea why).  I touted my build, said flattering things regarding what I'd heard about his work, and asked about having the pair rebuilt.  He responded that he's not a business, does it to help fellow Triumph owners get or keep their cars on the road, and does one set at a time.  He says that he will let me know when and how to send them, and that they will be returned within 10 days.  All well and good, except it's been about a month and I haven't heard back yet.  Then again, that's not really holding me back, as I have nothing to hang them on yet anyway.

    Which brings me to the next big "thing"... the motor!  Good news on that front.  Sam has the short block pretty much done, and will start in on the head work this coming week. He had to send out the block for machining for the cam bearings, but he has worked pretty quickly since getting it back in his shop.  Better yet, he sent pictures!

It's neat to see his championship-winning TR6 in the background too.

    On the home front, I've been trying to start on the body of the TVR, something I've been both dreading and looking forward to.  I've been trying to get the dash panel and "crash pad" out, but the screws, nuts and bolts are small, difficult to access, and completely rusted! The dash itself is plywood, and rotting at the bottom, but it's looking more and more like I'll be cutting and tearing my way through the offending attachments... but hey, it's fiberglass and wood, so easily repaired or replaced!  I got one door panel off, and the window hardware (frame and lift mechanism) seem pretty corroded but functioning. I really should remove it all for painting, but I hear it's all pretty "fiddly" to get back together and aligned correctly.  It's tough to want everything perfect but be lazy and impatient!  So, dash removal started but not progressing, door dis-assembly started but not progressing... so I started in on the driver controls.

    I DID get the steering column and wheel out of the car, which made access to the pedal box easier... but it would still help if I were a contortionist midget! Again, all hardware is seized up with rust, but with lots of PB Blaster and impact driver I'm making some headway. Got the clutch pedal separated and the master cylinder removed, but the brake pedal attachment to the booster shaft is being very difficult.  But hey, progress is progress!

I've got to remember to wear long sleeved shirts when working around fiberglass... I'm still itching! 

    

    

 

Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter)
Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
3/27/21 7:24 a.m.

Lemme know if you need a hand. Or a tiny one! I have a contortionist midget munchkin......

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