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tuna55
tuna55 PowerDork
10/23/13 9:30 a.m.

Well, some quick internet sleuthing leads me to believe you're about a second off of "stock" performance. From the vague calculators online, it looks like you're down 30-50 hp.

Have you checked the TBI to make sure the butterflies are opening fully? Have you checked the timing with a light under varying RPM? I have seen more than my share of toasted GM distributors with no or less mechanical advance. What was the MPH? That is a much better indicator of horsepower than ET.

Xceler8x
Xceler8x UltraDork
10/23/13 10:03 a.m.
Gearheadotaku wrote: So with E/T being beam to beam, there's no chance of improvement through better R/T. Ugh. I ran 16.1-16.3 on crappy tires. Don't have the slips handy to see my 60ft times.

With a manual you're going to run a lot slower. I'd guess by a .5 second at least.

If you're happy with the car..I say have a good time. Who cares what it's 1/4 mile time is! I bet any Miata is going to run a 17 or 18 sec time and we can't praise that car enough.

tuna55
tuna55 PowerDork
10/23/13 10:09 a.m.
Xceler8x wrote:
Gearheadotaku wrote: So with E/T being beam to beam, there's no chance of improvement through better R/T. Ugh. I ran 16.1-16.3 on crappy tires. Don't have the slips handy to see my 60ft times.
With a manual you're going to run a lot slower. I'd guess by a .5 second at least.

That doesn't make sense to me.

Xceler8x
Xceler8x UltraDork
10/23/13 12:15 p.m.
tuna55 wrote:
Xceler8x wrote: With a manual you're going to run a lot slower. I'd guess by a .5 second at least.
That doesn't make sense to me.

Consider that an automatic will launch and shift the same each run. Where is a manual requires a very specific clutch release technique, factor in times for shifting between gears, consider missed shifts, then also consider clutch release during each shift.

There's a reason most bracket racers run automatic transmissions. That reason being consistency and ease of use.

tuna55
tuna55 PowerDork
10/23/13 1:14 p.m.
Xceler8x wrote:
tuna55 wrote:
Xceler8x wrote: With a manual you're going to run a lot slower. I'd guess by a .5 second at least.
That doesn't make sense to me.
Consider that an automatic will launch and shift the same each run. Where is a manual requires a very specific clutch release technique, factor in times for shifting between gears, consider missed shifts, then also consider clutch release during each shift. There's a reason most bracket racers run automatic transmissions. That reason being consistency and ease of use.

Oh yes, easier and far more consistent, but the NHRA Super Stock indexes are quicker for all manual classes for a reason.

Gearheadotaku
Gearheadotaku GRM+ Memberand UberDork
10/23/13 1:15 p.m.

Actually the car is running as it should, I was just hopeing for a tiny bit more.

Car and Driver road test of a 1991 Camaro TBI 305 5 speed w/3.08 posi was a 16.1 E/T.

85 MPH. This dist. doesn't have a mech advance.

tuna55
tuna55 PowerDork
10/23/13 1:27 p.m.
Gearheadotaku wrote: Actually the car is running as it should, I was just hopeing for a tiny bit more. Car and Driver road test of a 1991 Camaro TBI 305 5 speed w/3.08 posi was a 16.1 E/T. 85 MPH. This dist. doesn't have a mech advance.

That's different than what I found - it may have been a 350/305 thing. Oh well, you're making around 150 hp. I don't know much about the TPI engines, sorry about the ignition error on my part.

Now it's time to make it faster!

Gearheadotaku
Gearheadotaku GRM+ Memberand UberDork
10/23/13 2:10 p.m.

150 @ wheels? 170 crank spec when new. Very few 305 TBI's got a road test, most mags ask for the top of the line models not base. I like this dist. design, 1 less thing for me to screw up.

Xceler8x
Xceler8x UltraDork
10/23/13 2:43 p.m.
tuna55 wrote: Consider that an automatic will launch and shift the same each run. Where is a manual requires a very specific clutch release technique, factor in times for shifting between gears, consider missed shifts, then also consider clutch release during each shift. There's a reason most bracket racers run automatic transmissions. That reason being consistency and ease of use.

Oh yes, easier and far more consistent, but the NHRA Super Stock indexes are quicker for all manual classes for a reason.

With a super human driver a manual will most likely be faster. Us mere mortals who haven't been drag racing weekly for the last 40 yrs will be more consistent and faster with an automatic.

That was my experience when racing anyway. I was more successful with an auto car than my manual cars. Most bracket racers to the unprofessional level had the same experience.

midniteson
midniteson Reader
10/23/13 6:09 p.m.

A full exhaust will knock close to a second off your time. L03 cats with some age and mileage are usually clogged. Just deleting that cat with a test pipe would get you in the high 15s even if the rest of the exhaust is stock.

Gearheadotaku
Gearheadotaku GRM+ Memberand UberDork
10/23/13 9:54 p.m.

Funny you mentioned that. My sawzall fell under the car tonight and got caught on something....

Gearheadotaku
Gearheadotaku GRM+ Memberand UberDork
11/7/13 8:48 p.m.

Last few bits before the Challenge:

Another 10 cents in the budget

I get bonus points for using polar bears to block CO2 emissions right?

last weekends trip to Ohio found that the lack of a cat really made the car noisy. The muffler must be a hollow box and little else. With the hole rotted in the pipe next to it, it wouldn't surprise me. Put a cheap glass pack instead of the test pipe and it's a whole lot better. Call me a Bob Costas, but my ears aren't that great vs loud exhaust for long, long road trips.

A bit more cleaning and I'm off!

noddaz
noddaz GRM+ Memberand Dork
11/8/13 3:53 p.m.

And some people continue to knock the 305. An engine saddled with bad heads, sucky emissions and whimpy camshaft. Nothing that can't be fixed. Run with it and have fun.

midniteson
midniteson Reader
11/9/13 4:28 a.m.

Good luck! How close are you to 2013$

Gearheadotaku
Gearheadotaku GRM+ Memberand UberDork
11/9/13 5:08 p.m.

I've got about $300 left for next year. I didn't get a chance to touch the motor beyond the cold air induction and removing the A.I.R. pump.

mazdeuce
mazdeuce SuperDork
11/9/13 7:26 p.m.

Good luck at the challenge. I'll be watching to see how it finishes.

Gearheadotaku
Gearheadotaku GRM+ Memberand UberDork
11/12/13 12:42 p.m.

Car ran fine from DTW to ATL. Handles the back roads better with the diff working right. Didn't track the fuel mileage at all.

AquaHusky
AquaHusky Reader
11/12/13 9:18 p.m.

I read through this whole thread just because I love these birds and want one. Like the white one in the current mag I just got the other night. I will be watching this to see how this sweet ride turns out on the track!

midniteson
midniteson Reader
11/17/13 2:13 a.m.

How did the challenge go? Did you get into the 15s in the 1/4?

DuctTapeRS
DuctTapeRS New Reader
11/17/13 12:20 p.m.

These cars are really under-appreciated. I own an '89 Formula 350. With SLP headers, Magnaflow catback, and a little weight reduction and tuneup the car went from a baseline of 15.2, to a 13.99 in the quarter. They're very choked from the factory.

The headers made a huge seat of the pants difference and should be the first mod done. You'll want 1 5/8" primaries on a 305.

Gearheadotaku
Gearheadotaku GRM+ Memberand UberDork
11/17/13 7:20 p.m.

got down to a 15.95. Couldn't launch the car properly, either spun or bogged. The shorter 15" wheel tire combo required 4th gear which didn't help.

I'm more of an autocrosser...

granted i didn't do well there either. Good thing we had pro drivers around. Alan cut 5 seconds off my time for a 49.999. Didn't bother with the V700's in the rain, ran the very worn out AST's.

Not sure of the Concurs score or my overall placement, waiting for GRM to post that stuff somewhere.

remember, this is a basicly "stock" car.

FranktheTank
FranktheTank HalfDork
11/17/13 10:51 p.m.

I had two 1984 Camaros when I was 15. I stripped one and sold it. We built one and drag raced it just a warmed up 350/700r4 combo and I dd it for several years then sold it.

I'm in the process of buying back the gutted car for a 377 destroker project. I'm hunting for a good manual trans for it now.

These cars are a blast even stock. Subframe connectors are a must though under any circumstances. And a few beefier suspension goodies. You can fab a lot of it yourself though.

midniteson
midniteson Reader
11/18/13 12:47 a.m.

Awesome! Good work sir. Your car is sweet. Inspires me to get my bird back out on track this spring.

Gearheadotaku
Gearheadotaku GRM+ Memberand UberDork
11/19/13 11:41 a.m.

ok, so the final was 16th out of 40 cars.

With the $2014 being very early next year (June), I don't have much time to make improvements. Winter will shut down most work from now till late March. Still hoping to swap the cam, get a chip made, and new exhaust.

Thanks for the information and encouragement everyone!

Gearheadotaku
Gearheadotaku GRM+ Memberand UberDork
11/20/13 9:03 p.m.

Drove home via US129, took a quick photo I've dubbed "Challenge the Dragon". Covered in wet leaves, yes it was a challenge

Final toll from the Challenge; 1 quart of oil for 3000 hi-way miles/6 autocross runs/ 8 or so trips down the 1/4, and lost one center cap on the way home. Not bad for a old mullet from the barn eh?

That will probably do it for this year. Too cold outside to wrench now. I'll be trolling E-bay and CL for just the right bits to install this coming spring.

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