Stampie said:What's the plan for a rear end again?
Original plan was to put in a shortened 8.8 inch from an Explorer (with Trac-Lok). That's probably going to take more time and effort than I can come up with before Power Tour and the 2020 Challenge.
I'm currently thinking of just welding the stock diff (especially if i can make the current drive shaft work) and send it. Replace as needed once it eventually grenades itself.
Stock axle in a TR4 vs. an LS, and a welded diff? That seems like an axle with an amazingly short life expectancy.
Narrowing an axle if you don't have all of the tools already seems like a costly thing to do when dealing with a Challenge budget. Not a lot of great options.
Would the 2 Explorer short side axles trick work for you? Cheap easy way to do it.
In reply to Stampie :
Doubtful. Even shortened with 2 short axles it'll probably still be 6-8 inches too wide.
I agree run the stock axle for now. Don't weld it. Welding the diff actually doubles the torque on each side axle shaft.
I mentioned this at the PRI gathering, here is the info I put in Robbie's thread:
gumby said:
https://www.roundforge.com/articles/toyota-axle-widths/
Toyota 8" axle is strong, and plentiful. Lighter than a 9" or Explorer 8.8. Lots of interchange availability and good aftermarket.
Early pickups are fairly narrow at 55" wms. The chart shows some FJ options at 55.6" wms and offset, which means two short sides makes an even narrower option with stock parts.
Robbie said:Don't weld it. Welding the diff actually doubles the torque on each side axle shaft.
I disagree - I raced cars with marginal rear axles for a while and spat plenty of spider gears out the back before I started welding them. After that they lasted much longer - and were way more fun to drive too!
Racingsnake said:Robbie said:Don't weld it. Welding the diff actually doubles the torque on each side axle shaft.
I disagree - I raced cars with marginal rear axles for a while and spat plenty of spider gears out the back before I started welding them. After that they lasted much longer - and were way more fun to drive too!
Robbie is right, sort of. It doesn't double the torque load, it can increase torque loads MUCH more than double in a tight corner where the tires are not slipping. There's a hellacious twist being put on the axles and if the tires don't break free the axles always lose the battle. You can have a 8 second car that makes a pass just fine and then breaks an axle turning around onto the return road while the tires are still hot and sticky.
It sounds like you were not having axle problems (meaning the shafts that go between the differential and the wheels, not "the rearend"), you were having differential problems.
Well E36 M3.
I whipped up some motivation to get out in the garage last night. The end goal was to get the engine level & in a position to start the Mounts. I missed that goal, and instead ended up in the Emergency Room with the tip of my little finger smashed off when the engine slipped.
I have an appointment with the surgeon on Tuesday. ( insert face palm meme )
In reply to Indy-Guy (Forum Jock Strap) :
Oof! Sorry, and hope A) that you're not in too much pain, and that B) the surgeon can put you to rights.
And the rest of us should take the reminder to stay vigilant on the safety front. I didn't have a big moment, but definitely had that realization that I was getting impatient/uncomfortable and hurrying a bit while across town from anyone who knew what I was up to.
Oh lord. I hope you are doing okay. That's awful.
Damn that sucks. Why is everyone trying to collect scars while locked down?
Crap man! Smashed OFF!
To add to the axle conversation, The Toyota spacevan has the same ish pumpkin as the trucks, with your bolt pattern 4X4.5, right?
I've been down this rabbit hole many times. Postal jeeps have a narrow Dana with LSD.
A Mustang 8.8 can be narrowed pretty easily. Either drill the spot welds, and press em out, shorten to taste, or just cut and re-weld(this is what I'd do). Aftermarket axles can be done on a challenge budget.
After that, it's either IRS and a ton of fab, or blind luck finding a narrowed rear.
Heal well, and stay well.
Please do not copy me, you can put a V8 in your TR4, but don't duplicate efforts to kill myself. No seriously hope you are okay and it did not do too much damage to your hand.
Definitely a reminder to all of us is only takes a second, so be extra careful out there. Heal up quick Indy!
[screams internally]
In reply to Indy-Guy :
The narrowest rear end (50") that will take a massive amount of power is a Jaguar XKE . It's a Dana 44 that's used in new Corvettes, 427 Cobra's, kit cars galore, Hot rods with silly power etc. the whole thing comes in a cage that is stupid easy to mount. Or you can take it out of the cage and just build the mounting holes on your frame where the ones in the cage would be it's why hot rodders love them
Standard drive ratio is 3.54 for the XKE series 1 and positraction is standard. Two axle ends wire wheel hubs or 4&3/4 bolt on hubs ( yep, Chevy!!!!!) think there might be some Chevy wheels around?
Now I suppose There isn't a super abundance of XKE series 1& 2 around. so it might be a tad bit difficult finding one really cheap. The series 3 XKE and 3.8S sedan are slightly wider. I don't remember exactly but maybe 54 inches? They tend to have 3:31-1 ratio's
But hey, The big Jaguar sedans ( about 60 inches wide) use the same design just wider. The axles ( also called dog bones) form the upper suspension links. You can go to your local drive shaft company and have a pair of drive shafts (dog bones) made that will narrow it up to the 50 inches. Or if you're a good welder just cut the axles narrower yourself ( they are really just steel forgings). I've seen both ways used successfully on race cars.
the lower suspension links can be narrowed the same way. Or you can fabricate your own lower links.
junk yard prices of sedan rear ends with inboard disk brakes ( used until the late 1980's ) is $200 but I've seen haggling get them down under that. it got so that that when I was scrapping Jaguar sedans I didn't bother pulling them.
If you have to pull it yourself once the car is sitting on the jack stands it shouldn't take more than an hour to lower the whole assembly on the floor jack and haul it out from underneath. That's for a first timer. I got well under 1/2 hour with practice.
leave your metric wrenches at home. But bring plenty of rust penetrating spray.
unhook the parking brake, snip the brake line, disconnect the driveshaft ( it unbolts ) and there are 4 rubber mounts that hold the cage to the side of the frame 2 per side. Sitting at about a 45 degree angle. Access right behind the wheels. Four bolts 1/2" and nuts on the inside of the frame. Last is The 2 drag links. Have one ( pretty sure it's 9/16's ) bolt in the center. Then hit it with a big hammer because it's probably pretty well rust seized. worst case use a chisel to loosen the rust.
If you are going to reuse the stock drag links take the whole base with you. The base is just riveted to the floor and in a lot of cases nearly rusted through.
outboard disk brakes (from the late 80's to about 1996.) the rear end price is $350 if it doesn't have positraction $500 with positraction.
6 cylinder sedans are likely not to have positraction although Some do. All V12's have positraction sedans, XJS, or XKE.
All told, well over 500,000 Jaguars were made with that same basic rear end.
PS parts for these are stupid cheap. Just don't buy from the dealer. Stock they have needle bearings on the suspension arms. While that's cool it's so easy to just make your own brass bushings rather than wrestle with all those needle bearings. It's not only faster but better. Save all the washers and just replace the needle bearings with brass bushings. The U joints are standard parts and the shock absorbers if they aren't leaking are likely good just clean them up, paint them orange and if you really want to you can buy the little Koni decals to fool people. The springs slip off the shock absorbers so you can either cut coils or leave them long and just mount them without the cage.
Dude. I came really close to that injury myself today. Heal quickly.
This was not the update I came in here for. I too have smashed off the end of a digit in the past. Heal up well, but expect nerve damage. Thankfully, being a pinky, you have several more useful digits left!
You can now tell people "I lost more talent in the tip of my pinky than you have in your entire body!"
Dang! I was thinking about this build today wondering how it was coming along while I was working on my jag.
Unfortunately I also injured a hand today, though not nearly as badly.
Get well soon buddy!
My Dad did that one time. He was closing a set of CAT D8 tracks when they fell shut and took off the corner of his pointer finger. It healed up alright but now he can predict a cold front because his finger starts to hurt. Or at least that's what he tells us.
Ouch! My thumb met a table saw last July. I got really lucky in that the blade made it to the bone but didn't actually cut into it. They stitched as much as they could. It healed surprisingly well. I hope you best of luck and a speedy recovery!
Sorry to hear (and see) that - heal up fast
Sorry but now you have committed the blood sacrifice and the challenge gods will be appeased by your offering.
In reply to ALL :
Thanks Guys for all the well wishes on a speedy recovery.
Hind sight is always 20/20 and upon reflection, it could have been much worse. I had the tail of the transmission supported on a long Socket Head Cap Screw (as can be seen a page or two back). A section of 2x6 was spanning between the frame rails and supporting the front of the engine under the Oil Pan. But this left the front too high, so I replaced the 2x6 with yellow handle rod seen in the pic below. I had things looking pretty good when I when to bump the engine towards the driver side when suddenly the assembly rolled rearward and smashed my pinky finger between the bottom of the oil pan leading edge and the yellow bar. It happened in a split second. At least It didn't pin me. Lesson learned. Be careful guys.
You need a tattoo on your pinky "LS Swapped".
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