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brad131a4
brad131a4 New Reader
1/11/16 10:06 a.m.

OOOh nice picture there of the wiring diagram. I would have put a short piece of pvc into the panel with a connector but that's just me. That ditch look's perfect for a Second or Third year apprentice that has all the knowledge and is trying to tell his or her journeyman how to do everything. You know since 25 plus years of wiring skyscrapers and tech complexes means nothing. We are just a bunch of old grumpy men and women who need to be put out to pasture. Other than that I like how the house and garage are coming along. They are looking good keep it up.

maschinenbau
maschinenbau GRM+ Memberand Reader
1/11/16 10:26 a.m.

There will be a short PVC piece into the panel for sure, just mocking it all up. I still have to install a similar transition into the house. Even though the cable is URD, I will probably put it in conduit for protection from future plants/idiot owners.

I can't claim those diagrams, they are from the internet. Here are a couple of good wiring guides for the DIYer who wants moar powah in the garage:

http://www.selfhelpandmore.com/home-wiring-usa/accessory-structures-to-dwellings/wiring-a-detached-garage-2002.php

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=169211

brad131a4
brad131a4 New Reader
1/11/16 10:58 a.m.

Very nice diagrams. I wish more home owners would do more home work before thinking they can JUST wire up a outlet or garage.

Home wiring isn't my forte but I'll do it once and awhile for family and friends. Have seen some P.O solutions to multiple issues that have left me wondering how the house hasn't burnt down yet. My guess is just shear dumb luck in most cases.

You look to be headed in the right direction so no worries here. Only thing I can say would be to get a permit just incase you do want to sell it in the future. That keep's the state off your back and the potential buyers from having a bargaining chip to beat you over the head with on price.

So when is the supercharger and 6speed tranny going in the land cruiser super sleeper?

maschinenbau
maschinenbau GRM+ Memberand Reader
1/11/16 11:35 a.m.

I appreciate your nod of approval, as this is my first garage wiring job. A little research pays off, especially with something like electrical. My PO and your PO must have known each other. The previous page of this thread has a 50's era fuse box that was used a junction in the attic.

The sleeper is my $2016 Challenge entry. I have a build thread for it somewhere, but I've mostly just been accumulating parts. Once the garage is wired and lit, the LT1 comes out for a refresh, cam swap, and some head work. 6-speed is a little outside the Challenge budget but you never know.

Redhornet
Redhornet Reader
1/12/16 9:51 a.m.
maschinenbau wrote:

I have a house that is 100 years old too. For the old metal fixtures in my place, some had been painted over, some really tarnished, etc. I took a large glass jar with a screw on top, put all the metal doorknobs, plates and hinge hardware in it, then filled it with stripper and let it sit for a week. Once everything was rinsed with copious amounts of water all the parts looked brand spanking new, to the point I was able to read a manufacture date on the back of a door plate, 1896, pretty freakin cool.

As for your well, could it be a catch basin for all the drainage coming from the house? I live in Chicago and all the old houses in the area have them. Mine was filled in by previous owner. I'd get a drainage/plumber pro out to at least look at it.

RossD
RossD UltimaDork
1/12/16 10:04 a.m.

Great work. That tank could be a rain water cistern.

mazdeuce
mazdeuce PowerDork
1/12/16 10:40 a.m.

Question? How do you know you have the capacity in your main panel to run a 100 amp sub? Just if you have enough available slots? I have a 200 amp box with something like 330 amps of breakers in it already, but I have the capacity to plug in five more breakers.

brad131a4
brad131a4 New Reader
1/12/16 11:24 a.m.

Load calcs. Haven't done one for a while but could if needed. Most houses have breakers that add up to more than what the panel is rated at. Plus each phase is 200amps and there are 2 of them in residential,So in your 330 total breaker amps case there is 165 amps total on each phase if they are balanced between each phase.

Also to get even close to 200amps you would need to have something plugged into every outlet and all the appl and heating or cooling going all at once. Not something that is realistically going to happen.

Then you have 3 phase in commercial for the most part. Some people live close enough that they can get 3 phase to their garage. Not done very often but is nice if you can.

maschinenbau
maschinenbau GRM+ Memberand Reader
1/12/16 11:34 a.m.

Breaker amp count doesn't matter. You need to add up your power in Watts. You can roughly calculate the service load in your house from adding up all the devices and dividing by 240 (Power = voltage * current). Either look at the rated power on each appliance, or use estimations on internet look-up tables. Figure 1500 W per outlet branch, 3 W/sqft for lighting, etc.

http://www.wholesalesolar.com/solar-information/how-to-save-energy/power-table

Per NEC 220.83, your service demand is the first 10,000 Watts, minus the HVAC power, plus 40% of the remaining Watts, then add the HVAC Watts back in. Then divide this demand load by 240 Volts, you have your service Amps.

For my house, I calculated 21,240 Watts, divided by 240V = 88.5 Amps.

For my 200 Amp main, that means I can have about 100 Amps worth of 240V circuits, or 220 Amps worth of 120V circuits. Which is good, because I expect to draw an additional 30A from two 240V devices simultaneously (worst case) plus a 120V light branch circuit. Don't forget to factor in losses associated with long lengths of wire. There are spreadsheet calculators out there you can download, or any electrician should be able to calculate your home pretty reasonably.

brad131a4
brad131a4 New Reader
1/12/16 11:39 a.m.

You sure your not a electrician? Cause you sure sound like one.

maschinenbau
maschinenbau GRM+ Memberand Reader
1/12/16 11:43 a.m.
brad131a4 wrote: You sure your not a electrician? Cause you sure sound like one.

I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing and my advice should be considered accordingly. However I have great skills in Google-fu

brad131a4
brad131a4 New Reader
1/12/16 12:14 p.m.

Haha your killing me

andxx0r
andxx0r New Reader
1/12/16 12:24 p.m.

Gonna stub in any gas or water to the garage while you've got trenches dug?

maschinenbau
maschinenbau GRM+ Memberand Reader
1/12/16 12:37 p.m.

I would like to run water out the garage for a good utility sink, but the frost line in my county is 48". This little electrical trench is already a back breaker at 24". Not sure if I'm allowed to put them in the same trench anyway. Maybe I could put a shut-off in the basement, so that I could empty the pipe each winter?

mazdeuce
mazdeuce PowerDork
1/12/16 4:35 p.m.

It would be pretty easy to set it up so you could blow the line out with a compressor. PEX is supposed to be pretty burst proof even if some water stays in. If it were me I'd lay a line. You can always decide if you want to hook it up later. And thanks for the power information. Looks like I need to get out my slide rule.

brad131a4
brad131a4 New Reader
1/12/16 5:01 p.m.

I'd just dig down another 6-8" and run a PEX line like deuce said. Then cover it with sand and then the electrical. Also don't forget to put a safety ribbon on top of the electrical. We do it after we put a couple of inches of dirt back in the trench. It's for the next guy who is digging around so as not to blow thing's up.

andxx0r
andxx0r New Reader
1/12/16 7:47 p.m.

Even if you didn't hook it up right away, a pex line out there for water would be pretty nice :)

Soft copper or wardflex run through PVC to have a gas line stubbed in would mean that you could put heat out there one day.

I've got a furnace sitting where I used to work so I can get some heat out in the current garage. Ironically, not putting it in because it's too cold to work out there

Mad_Ratel
Mad_Ratel HalfDork
1/12/16 8:24 p.m.

Where are you located? just look up the frost depth for your area. i'd got 6" lower than that.

edit: nm I saw where you said 48". Ouch.

fine with a few more inches and put some insulation on it.

maschinenbau
maschinenbau GRM+ Memberand Reader
1/13/16 7:23 a.m.

Ditch progress: roughly 40 out of 90 feet complete down to 24". At night. Up hill both ways. In the snow.

Luckily my soil is quite soft and free of rocks (so far). It will warm up above freezing this week and rain is expected, so that will help too.

I'll do the full 90 ft down to 24", then maybe I'll go deeper for a water line. Might as well bury everything while my yard is torn up.

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 UberDork
1/13/16 12:51 p.m.

Shop sinks are like magic. Especially if you have hot water. I remember how bad things suckered without. Never want to go back.

Gearheadotaku
Gearheadotaku GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
1/13/16 9:01 p.m.

I wasn't about to dig down 48" for my garage waterline. It would freeze where it comes up anyhow (unheated garage) I buried it a foot at most and drain it each fall. Just used a roll of sprinkler line, worked fine.

wbjones
wbjones MegaDork
1/14/16 12:39 a.m.
wlkelley3 wrote: The master bath in my house is half carpeted. The master bath is divided with front half having the double sinks that is carpeted and the back half with shower & commode linoleum. Didn't understand it myself but sure is comfy for the feet.

I can understand doing that ... assuming a large enough bathroom

maschinenbau
maschinenbau GRM+ Memberand Reader
1/14/16 9:51 a.m.
Gearheadotaku wrote: I wasn't about to dig down 48" for my garage waterline. It would freeze where it comes up anyhow (unheated garage) I buried it a foot at most and drain it each fall. Just used a roll of sprinkler line, worked fine.

How did you tie it into the house? I have an unfinished basement where the pipes are but boring a hole in my foundation wall may be outside my capability. Can I just pop up from the dirt go through the wall and back down into the basement? Though that would make it impossible to drain since the low spot would be in the trench...

Gearheadotaku
Gearheadotaku GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
1/14/16 8:37 p.m.

Is your foundation block or poured? Block is easy to drill through with a masonary bit. Poured isn't too bad with a 1/2" hammer drill and some patience. Check your local equipment rental place for pro quaility stuff to make it real easy.

I have an outside faucet on the house, so I put a tee in that line for the garage. In the winter I blow it out with a compressor just like a sprinkler line.

nocones
nocones GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
1/14/16 9:07 p.m.

Your electrical plan looks very similar to what I did but I really question running a 125A subpanel trough 100A line with the main panel I'm assuming having a 100A breaker. You should blow the main panel 100A first but with a large resistive load (the kiln) I would want to ensure that the 100A burried cable doesn't have to carry a short and is protected ideally by a <95A subpanel main breaker in the garage.

I saw someone talking about 2 phase vs 3 phase power. As an aside US residential power is split phase. The grid is 3 phase (A,B,C) at 340KV. Your neighborhood receives 1 phase (lets say A) steped down to 240V. Your house gets this single phase through a center tapped transformer giving you 120V high and 120V low 180 out of phase but this is not 2 phase power it is a single phase of generated power split into 2 usable signals. A 240V outlet is simply you recreating the original stepped down A phase by bridging across your neutral. 3 phase commercial is literally A,B,C stepped down to service voltage and all delivered to your facility.

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