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wae
wae UberDork
2/19/21 9:14 p.m.

You what now? 

You can just print those out at home?

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
2/20/21 6:18 a.m.

In reply to wae :

Yeah, just discovered that when I was checking to see if I could get a temp tag after transferring the title (spoiler: you can't).  So, rather than spend $60-80 for a tag that only lasts til September, I spent a bit over $20 for a 45 day tag.  If I get the Impala sold before it expires, it should be pretty cheap to transfer its plate, if I want to.

So, one of those rare nice things about the Ohio BMV.

wae
wae UberDork
2/20/21 7:27 a.m.

Color me impressed!  That's pretty slick.

I know that the problem has already been solved a million times over so it's no big deal, but how much modification needs to be done to bolt the 6.0 into the S10?  Did GM just re-use the old SBC mounting points and dimensions or is there bracket fabrication involved?  And how close is the transmission mounting and driveshaft length?

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
2/20/21 8:34 a.m.

And title is dealt with.  Turns out the title office isn't too crowded when you get there right after it opens, and the temperatures are in the teens.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
2/21/21 9:04 a.m.
wae said:

Color me impressed!  That's pretty slick.

I know that the problem has already been solved a million times over so it's no big deal, but how much modification needs to be done to bolt the 6.0 into the S10?  Did GM just re-use the old SBC mounting points and dimensions or is there bracket fabrication involved?  And how close is the transmission mounting and driveshaft length?

For just the 6.0, its the following:

  1. Use a set of conversion mounts.  They usually use the same frame holes as the 2.8 V6 mounts, which my truck has.
  2. Swap to a different oil pan
  3. (Optional) Cut and reweld part of the front crossmember, depending on the oil pan you used.  I may not have to do this with the H3 oil pan I have, but I may do a bit of it, just to get a little more clearance.
  4. (Optional) Cut  and reweld part of the right frame rail near the front of the engine, only if keeping A/C.  I'm not using A/C.
  5. Unknown - may need to do some front bracket altering/replacement.  I am getting conflicting info on if the full size truck power steering pump will interfere with the S10 steering box.  There is also some indication the front brackets on the TBI engine might be modifiable to fit an LS, but I have not seen confirmation, so I am going to assume the answer is no.  Regardless, I may be looking at paying a hydraulics shop for new high pressure power steering lines.  When I go with a turbo, I might look into electric power steering conversions, but that is way down the line.
  6. Alter the heater box - I already did this for the SBC swap, so I am probably good.

The 4L80E is where it gets trickier:

  1. Bash in some of the firewall and trans tunnel - I already did this for the the SBC swap, so hopefully, little to none needs to be done.
  2. Trim a little bit from the bellhousing - most conversion headers hug the block tightly, and the bellhousing will interfere in a couple of spots.
  3. Build a new trans crossmember or modify the old one.  The 4L80E mount is farther back than a 4L60E/700R4.  Based on prices of conversion pieces, I think I will try my hand at modifying the stock crossmember first.
  4. Shorten the driveshaft.  Overall length of the 4L80E is greater.  I'll likely snag the driveshaft from the Sierra to do this with.  Or just pay a driveshaft shop to build me a new one, as whatever rear end I put in will also alter the needed length.

 

I need to track down a set of drawings of the LS-style block mounts, and see if I can redrill the holes on my SBC rollers that mount directly to the engine.  That'd make shuffling it around the garage much easier than on a traditional engine stand.

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
2/21/21 10:05 a.m.

In reply to eastsideTim :

The 45 day tag you bought is good until July 1, 2021 and its highly likely that will be extended too. 

All my personal vehicles are running "expired" Ohio plates. If you really see the details, plates that expired in March 2020 ( almost a year ago) were extended until Dec 2020 and those have been extended another 6 month to July 2021. Make good effort to keep the paper tag in good shape like tape it in the rear window if you expect this sole piece of paper to last 5 months or more.  

I find it interesting that Ohio still mails you the forms to complete plate renewal via mail or online but I have enjoyed the cost savings since they are not "requiring" the renewal. 

If the Impala is on old plates, they are likely still "good". 

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
2/21/21 12:15 p.m.

In reply to John Welsh :

Good point.  I'll be taping it up in the back window.  Since it doesn't print out license plate sized, I'm assuming that's where it should go anyway.  Even during this mess, I've been a pretty extreme rule follower.  Even when I know I'm doing things right, I always feel like I'm going to do something to get in trouble at the title office or the BMV. 

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
2/21/21 8:28 p.m.

Spent a bit of time pulling codes and cleaning the truck today.  Its got stored codes P0118 and P0122.  The first one is saying the coolant temp sensor is reading way too low, and the second is the TPS signal is too low in the "A" position.  The P0118 code does not seem to be a potential cause of the hard start once the truck is warmed up, but maybe it is, if the truck is giving it way too much fuel when it tries to restart.  However, I'd think it would not be giving it so much that it would act like it is flooding.  I think the PO may have swapped the sensor recently, so I may take a closer look at it, and the wiring before buying parts.  The TPS code, I am not sure about either.  I want to take a look at the wiring around it, too.  Neither sensor is that expensive, but having two of them bad at once makes me want to take a look at the harness, and maybe add an additional ground strap between the engine and chassis/body, just to see what happens.

As for cleaning, holy crap, I hate dealing with smoked-in cars.  Since I'm unlikely to keep it too long, and had a limited amount of time, I just sprayed down the seats and floor with upholstery cleaner, let it set, then wiped it up.  I also had a bug bomb-style odor eliminator that was part of a car care gift pack from years ago I decided to give a shot.  After that finished, I tossed a small bucket of damp rid in the cab, and will have to see how it all smells in a day or two. 

I really don't want to wait until I am on vacation in a week to start ordering parts, so I am hoping in the next few days I can get off work early enough to do some more looking around at the wiring.  I'd do it on my lunch break, but then I'd risk spending the rest of the day smelling like stale cigarette smoke and carpet cleaner.  I was ready to just order parts tonight, but with fuel injectors being as pricey as they are, it seems like it'd be wise to do a little more diagnosis first.

 

Edit:  I've also started looking into buying an HP Tuner, and getting a new laptop.  Mine is pretty ancient, and would need at least a new battery and an OS upgrade before it could be used as anything more than the MP3 player duty it gets used for now.

 

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
2/22/21 4:01 a.m.

Smoked in...

Get a Tuff Stuff can and an old towel (real towel, not paper towel.)  Spray liberally and repeatedly to the headliner and wipe off with towel. 

All smoke goes to the headliner. The towel should turn a nasty color.  The masking, pleasant smell of Tuff Stuff should remain (at least for a little while.)  Repeat as needed.  

Tuff Stuff sold in automotive departments of everywher including Walmaft, Autozone, Dollar General,  etc.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
2/22/21 11:57 a.m.

In reply to John Welsh :

Still have some more of the armor all cleaner I bought, so I may give it a shot with that.  The towels ended up pretty stained from the seats, I can only imagine what the headliner will look like.

Ashyukun (Robert)
Ashyukun (Robert) PowerDork
2/22/21 12:03 p.m.

In reply to eastsideTim :

Sorry, I don't still have the portable hot plate to loan you to boil vinegar in it like I did with the Blazer. :P

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
2/22/21 1:42 p.m.

In reply to Ashyukun (Robert) :

Thankfully, I only have to make this tolerable for a month or so, unlike my old minivan I did the vinegar trick in.  I might still hit a thrift shop, if the upholstery cleaner and bug bomb don't do the trick.

 

Edit- and the truck is now insured, so ready for road testing whenever I actually have time.  First stop will need to be for gas.  It had the low fuel light on when I got it, and I'm sure 15 minutes of idling yesterday did not help.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
2/22/21 7:31 p.m.

Went to toss in some fuel from a gas can, and spilled more on the ground than got in the tank.  The top of the filler neck is almost rusted in half.  I cannot believe this thing is not throwing any evap codes.  I took it to the gas station and put in 5 gallons, just so I would have enough fuel to move it around, and not get stranded anywhere.  Filler neck is only about $25 or so on RA, so if I intend to keep it for more than a month or so, it won't be terribly expensive to fix.  I do wonder if contaminated gas could be contributing to the starting issue, though.

Regarding the starting issue, here are my actions and observations:

  1. Yesterday, I checked the oil while the truck was cool, and could smell some combustion smells in it, probably from a little blowby, but I did not smell any gas in the oil.
  2. I cleared the current codes.
  3. Checked the underhood wiring.  The TPS and coolant temp sensor wiring did not have any obvious damage.  The ground strap between the engine and the firewall was intact.  I added another one from the alt mount to the firewall, just in case.  There seems to have been a ground strap in the same bundle of wires as the ones that go to the underhood light, but it was cut off on both ends, so I have little idea as to where it went in either direction.
  4. When I took it to the gas station, I only warmed it up for about a minute, drove under 1.5 miles to the gas station, and shut the truck off. 
  5. When I went to start it, it needed the gas to the floor to start.  Guesstimating it was shut off between 3-5 minutes.
  6. When I got back to the house, I shut it off, and checked codes.  P0118 was back (and also a pending code), but the TPS code was not back.  Of course, the truck had only been driven for a few miles, so that may not have been enough time.
  7. Truck was shut off, I'd guess 2-3 minutes in front of the house, and I started it with no problem.  I shut it off, waited about 30 seconds, and was able to start it again, with no problem.

So, that's where I stand right now, looks like the truck does not need to be fully warmed up to cause the starting issue.  Could be tied to the coolant temp sensor, but I'm just as likely to believe it is the fuel system.  I may order a new sensor, on the assumption that the recently replaced one could still be bad.  Not sure I want to drop $300 on a set of remanned injectors just yet.  In the next day or so, I also want to check the fuel pressure, as I did find one post somewhere that the FPR failed and the owner had to hold the gas down to start the truck, although I got the impression that might have been due to too little fuel pressure, and once running, my truck doesn't seem to give any indications of that. 

I'm open to ideas.  The filler neck thing is leading me towards the path of scrapping it, though, I figure this thing could nickle and dime me fast if I try to get any and all safety/reliability repairs done.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
2/23/21 5:10 p.m.

Fuel pressure check results, it should be 58 psi:

  1. Key on, engine off, pump priming:  58 psi
  2. Engine idling: 50 psi
  3. Engine at 2500-3000 RPM:  48-49 psi
  4. Engine off:  Immediately falls to around 44-45 psi
  5. 6-7 minutes after engine off: 36 psi

Weak fuel pump?  Clogged fuel filter? Leaky injectors?  I'd think if injectors are bad, pressure would drop faster, but I do not know that kind of thing well enough.  Engine started up just fine after I had it off for 6-7 minutes.

 

Edit:  Several minutes after running it again, fuel pressure gauge is reading 49-50 psi

Stampie (FS)
Stampie (FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
2/23/21 6:03 p.m.

FPR?  Does it have the one right on the rail drivers side?

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
2/23/21 6:20 p.m.
Stampie (FS) said:

FPR?  Does it have the one right on the rail drivers side?

Yup, it does.  I was thinking with it hitting the exact right fuel pressure when I primed it, that the FPR would be good, but I did not pull the vacuum line to see if pressure went up.  I thought FPRs tended to put out too high of pressure when the failed?

 

Edit:  Did some more reading, and it looks like it could be the FPR, but the fact that it isn't losing pressure fast after shutting off is making me think it's not the most likely.  It's not that expensive, so I might get one just in case.  I'm holding off on a parts order until tomorrow, because I need to pull one of the coils to find the part number, so I can order the right plug wires.  Apparently, there are two different resistances depending on which coils are being used.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
2/23/21 8:06 p.m.

I'm kind of disinclined to do too much work that can't transfer over to the S10, so not likely to mess with the fuel pump, or anything else that would stay with the truck.

Stampie (FS)
Stampie (FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
2/23/21 8:10 p.m.

Not all FPR fail high.  I know on Volvo 240s they'd fail low and suck gas into the vacuum line flooding the engine.  Worth pulling the line just to see if there's gas in it.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
2/23/21 8:23 p.m.

I'll give that a shot tomorrow, if I get out of work during daylight.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
2/24/21 8:05 a.m.

Checked the FPR in the morning before work.  No fuel in the vacuum line.  The FPR could still be a problem, but that does not appear to be the failure mode, unless it is intermittent.  Although, the more I think about it, I suspect there won't be a problem with gas in the vacuum line, or the fuel pressure would have gone up when I revved the engine yesterday, instead of  just barely dropping.

Also ordered some parts this morning, after pulling a coil to see what plug wires I'd need.  I think the only thing I'll replace at first is the coolant temp sensor, and I'll go from there.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
2/25/21 7:17 p.m.

Now that the snow has melted, I can see the truck is leaking something.  Bet it's transmission fluid, as it seemed a bit low when I checked it (but on a hill, so couldn't be sure).  I'm kind of happy, as it's one more thing I'd have to fix if I was using it regularly, so it means it is one more checkmark on the side of "tear it up soon, and stuff the engine in the S10" laugh

Just need to get some more rain to get the salt to wash off the roads, and the garage can be made accessible again.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
2/27/21 5:31 p.m.

The leak is coolant.  Can't be sure, but it appears to be at the outlet where one of the heater hoses and the reservoir hose meet up.  Also found out that one of the rear break lines is pinched off, and the other is crusty enough I'd expect it to burst any day now.  More things that put this truck in the "engine donor" category.  Anyone need GMT800 parts before I scrap this sucker?

Replaced the coolant temp sensor and hit the connector with some electronics cleaner.  The code came back pretty quickly so I am guessing it is a wiring issue.  I also was able to get it to repeat the hard start problem, and am now wondering if that could be related to wiring somewhere, too.  This time, it happened after the truck had been sitting 5-10 minutes.  Still, could easily be something in the fuel system, too.  Since the injectors have 190K on them, at the least, once the engine is out, I'll put together a DIY cleaning rig, or I may just pay to have them rebuilt.  I am disinclined to try to diagnose the harness on the truck, I figure it'll be a lot easier to do when it is on a table while I am removing bits I do not need. 

Also, there is more squealing from the accessory drive.  Right now, I am guessing it is the belt, but that's another thing I won't worry about until the engine is in the S10, as it may get changed out.

Going to pick up some Dexcool to keep in the truck before I drive it much, but I think it'll be local use only.  No need to risk other people's lives at highway speed.  It'll still be handy for doing some cleanup at my storage locker, and maybe picking up cabinets at the hardware store.

 

 

Stampie (FS)
Stampie (FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
2/27/21 5:34 p.m.

Should I be laughing that the go to fix up north for bad brake lines is to just pinch the line off?

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
2/27/21 5:53 p.m.
Stampie (FS) said:

Should I be laughing that the go to fix up north for bad brake lines is to just pinch the line off?

I thought GMT800 brake lines rust everywhere smiley  But, laugh all you want, I've bought multiple clunkers that were like this.  I suspect up here, part of it is that not just the lines are usually rusty.  The fittings, the calipers, the wheel cylinders, and the backing plates tend to be rusted badly, too.  Trying to fix a rusted brake line usually turns into an involuntary rebuild of the entire brake system.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
3/2/21 3:08 p.m.

Well, now it has to happen.  Just ordered an HPTuner, engine swap mounts, headers, and a poly 4L80E transmission mount.

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