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eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
10/18/21 12:51 p.m.

And the passenger header won't bolt up.  Guess I should have used all the bolts instead of just a couple when I test fit it.  I think I can elongate the rear bolt hole a smidge with a grinder, and get it to work.  Kind of regretting not throwing down the money for some of the nicer headers or exhaust manifolds.

On the better side, the battery wiring is pretty much taken care of, just need to shorten one wire, put a terminal opn it, and attach it to the distribution point near the fuse box.

Patrick (Forum Supporter)
Patrick (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
10/18/21 12:56 p.m.

I have had to slot the outer holes on a couple different sets of cheapo headers.  

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
10/18/21 1:04 p.m.
Patrick (Forum Supporter) said:

I have had to slot the outer holes on a couple different sets of cheapo headers.  

I had hoped by not buying off brand ebay headers, I'd avoid these issues, but I guess not.  I do not appear to have small enough grinding bits, and I don't think the bladed cutting bits I have will work well on the thick flange, so I'll have to pause on this until I can make a trip to the hardware store.  Off to get some other work done around the house for now, and maybe back to something else on the truck later.  At least a delay in one place won't fully stop me right now.

Patrick (Forum Supporter)
Patrick (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
10/18/21 1:05 p.m.

Fwiw i've also drilled a couple larger(both end holes to split the difference) and just used a washer 

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
10/18/21 1:08 p.m.
Patrick (Forum Supporter) said:

Fwiw i've also drilled a couple larger(both end holes to split the difference) and just used a washer 

Might try that.  I already have to use washers, as I bought replacement exhaust manifold bolts, and they are 2-3 millimeters longer than they need to be with the headers.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
10/19/21 2:14 p.m.

A little grinding and thread chasing (the hole at the back of the cylinder head had some boogered threads, probably from when I extracted a broken bolt), and the header is in.  Next problem is the new dipstick tube does not want to go all the way in.  I oiled the o-ring before installing it, but it appears it does not want to go all the way in.  It seems stopped right at where the o-ring meets the block.  The tutorials I've looked at just say to install it with some force.  Am I just not using enough force, or is there another trick to it?  I'm a bit worried any more force will just bend the tube, not get it further in.

On a side note, I was harvesting wire from the fireturd's engine harness and found a couple of the fusible links I wanted to use are looking kind of mangy.  Think I'll just order new replacements to be safe.

 

EDIT:  Gave it a bit of a twist when I was pushing it, and it appears to have gone into place.  Hoping the o-ring is okay, but I don't think I am willing to pull it back out to find out, now that it is in place.

Cousin_Eddie (Forum Supporter)
Cousin_Eddie (Forum Supporter) Dork
10/19/21 2:42 p.m.

Recalcitrant dipstick tubes are common on LS engines. Mine sure was. Fortunately I had the engine on the stand so I could flood the scene with light and get my reading glasses in position just so, and a dab of Shin Etsu on the oring. It went in, but I had to push on it like I meant it and keep a cool head.

I think this post may be my way of telling you that there's plenty of us out here watching your every thread update. Keep plugging along brother. We're all here with you.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
10/24/21 1:19 p.m.

Thanks Cousin_Eddie, hope your swap is going well, too.

 

I didn't feel like getting too dirty today, so decided to go back to tackling the in cab wiring issue.

I disconnected the DRAC, since it really shouldn't be needed anymore with the ECM VSS signal going straight to the dash now.  No change in the weird voltage issue.

Went ahead and pulled the gauge cluster, and was reminded of why I'd been stalling on doing this - requires pulling the heater controls, and a lot of connecters/clips in a very inconvenient position.  Anyway, results from that:

RESULTS EDITED - I made some changes to the battery connection(improved the positive connection and added fusible links) and retested, plus I must have read something wrong before

With fuse in place:

Key off ~ 1.4 volts

Key on  -.3 volts

With fuse removed:

Key off ~1.4 volts

Key on ~1.4 volts

 

That's weird.  I plugged the gauge cluster back in, just to see if I had jostled something, but when I did, I went back to basically the same numbers I was getting before.  Just in case the battery was drained, I switched to a fully charged one.  Haven't pulled the cluster to replicate the numbers in this post, but the plugged in numbers were close enough I don't think it was the battery.

Here's my takeaways so far:

  1. The issue with the voltage drop/reversal is not in the gauge cluster itself, based on the differing results above with the fuse pulled or in.
  2. The cluster is somehow integral for power getting to at least the cigarette lighter and the radio wiring harness.

 

Going to keep messing around, maybe see if I can find some visibly damaged wiring, but I am pretty much flying blind.  I might try to run some tests for draw across the fuses like I saw in a youtube video last week, but I'm not sure that will really reveal anything, since I already know roughly where the issue should be.

One thing I forgot to mention, I am not sure sure if this is relevant or not, but the orange wires that go to the OBD1 port do not seem to have power.  Being a Chevy, I'm kind of assuming they should always be powered if the battery is connected and a fuse is not blown.  Unless they are one of the random orange wires GM uses for something other than fused power.

 

 

 

 

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
10/24/21 2:37 p.m.

Breakthrough - Realized if it is a bad ground, which had been the consensus on the thread I posted in the main forum, then the gauge cluster could be a better path to ground than the actual ground wire.  Since I had run the wiring for my passenger side bulkhead, and that included two ground wires attached to the firewall, I switched to using one of them as the ground wire.  Suddenly 12.5-12.7 V for every situation, key on/off, cluster installed/removed, gauge fuse installed/removed. 

So, bad interior ground.  I'll re-check the driver's bulkhead connection for any required ground connections, and if nothing there, I'll start tracing back from the cigarette lighter or stereo harness, and see if I can find the source of the problem.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
10/24/21 8:31 p.m.

Spent a bunch of time  trying to follow wire bundles, and even unbolted the dash so I could pull it back an inch or so to see better.  Could not find anything that looked ugly, nor could I find any ground wires bolted to the body.  Did a little online research and found the dash ground is supposed to be bolted up near the kick panel and ebrake release handle.  I suspect it is supposed to get sandwiched between the dash mounting bracket and the bolt right there.  I would have thought I'd seen it, being that I had to remove the bolt to undo the dash, but nope, nothing there.  I also looked up and down the wiring harness in that area for any broken/loose wire, and didn't find anything.  However, I did see this on the underside of the steering column support (I think) bracket:

Looks kind of like a bunch of blade terminals for ground wires.  Also looks nothing like I have ever seen in a GM vehicle, so I am wondering if it is an add on.  The truck had an aftermarket stereo system at some point, so I suspect it could have something to do with that.  Anyone got any ideas? 

I'm really hoping I don't have to disconnect the harness from the dash and remove the dashboard to figure this out.  That may involve cutting some wires I used to rebuild the stereo harness.   I'll make another attempt to find a loose ground near where it should be before I do that, I think.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
10/25/21 8:22 p.m.

Wasted a couple more hours tonight, contorting myself under the dash, pulling up some of the carpet, digging around ancient threads on s10forum, and no progress.  I see no sign of a damaged ground wire anywhere in the harness where I can see it, and in looking for potential places it could have been bolted to the body, no telltale evidence of a star washer imprint anywhere.

Debating whether to just tap into some of the ground wires on the harness to make a few runs to a new grounding point or do it the "right" way and pull the dash, and hope I don't damage it anymore than it already is.

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
10/25/21 9:47 p.m.

Add grounds. Tap into existing ground wires, add extras from existing ground terminals, etc. As long as theyre black, it'll be fine.

Should also have been one in a connector over at tbe ecu that grounded to the engine on the ecu side of things if i remember my 88 2.8 truck correctly. 

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
10/25/21 10:12 p.m.
Dusterbd13-michael said:

Should also have been one in a connector over at tbe ecu that grounded to the engine on the ecu side of things if i remember my 88 2.8 truck correctly. 

Hmm, thanks.  I will take a more detailed look on the passenger side by where the ECU was, just in case.  I had looked, but not as thoroughly as on the driver's side.  Need to clear out all the crap I've been dumping on the floor there as I've been tearing into the dash.  If I don't find anything, I'll start adding wires to existing ground wires and find a few good places to attach them.

ClemSparks
ClemSparks UltimaDork
10/26/21 8:58 a.m.
eastsideTim said:

On a side note, I was harvesting wire from the fireturd's engine harness and found a couple of the fusible links I wanted to use are looking kind of mangy.  Think I'll just order new replacements to be safe.

I recently learned that a good auto parts store has fusible link wire.  Fusible links had been a mystery to me all my life (I know what they do but had never looked much past that).  I popped one in our truck when doing an engine swap (fortunately I heard it happen and was able to figure it out quickly) and simply bought some fusible link wire and put a new piece in.  There is some science behind getting the correct length for the amperage protection needed.  Fortunately it's not rocket science...it's just truck science.  So if you're off by a factor of 1o, you just need to run a little faster or slower as the truck starts to burn down on the shoulder of the road.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
10/26/21 9:30 a.m.

In reply to ClemSparks :

I've got one "GM-spec" 16 gauge fusible link, and a fusible link kit on its way.  I was just planning on cutting it down to the length of the GM one.  Is there more I should do before cutting it down?  I'm guessing the longer you leave it, the less power it takes to burn through?

ClemSparks
ClemSparks UltimaDork
10/26/21 12:20 p.m.

I think your plan is probably solid enough.   That's probably what I did.  I honestly don't recall exactly.  If there's a dead short, it's going to blast through that sacrificial wire whether it's half as long as it should be or twice as long as it should be...truck science is awesome like that.  

How's that for helpful input?  Lol.  

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
10/30/21 11:38 a.m.

Could not find any loose ground wires on the passenger side, so decided to add my own.  Grounding the interior wiring is done, I think.

  1. Cut the ground wire off the DRAC connector, and ran a ground to the passenger side dashboard mounting bracket.
  2. Split the ground wire on the dimmer switch, and ran a ground to the driver side dashboard mounting bracket.
  3. Split the ground wire on the glove box light, and connected it to one of the grounds I ran through the passenger bulkhead.

I am hoping that will be enough.  Now, I just need to assemble a bunch of the crap I tore apart, and go back to what took me down this path in the first place - testing the stereo.  Will be happy if I can get it to work.  First, while a bunch of stuff is mostly apart, I may see if I can get to and replace the original forward parking brake cable with the new 2-door blazer one.

Also, when putting it back together, I need to dig  through the hardware bucket.  It looks like I skipped replacing a bunch of bolts in the dashboard when I was rushing to get this ready for the $2017 Challenge.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
10/30/21 3:05 p.m.

It's alive!

The voltage gauge in the cluster also appears to be showing the right value.  It should be safe to start integrating the cab/underhood wiring now. I rechecked the wires in the ALDL connector, hoping to figure them out, but no luck, other than the ground, so I think I'll run a fused battery connection over to that area when it is time to install the OBD2 connector.

I messed with the e-brake cables a bit, but I think I am missing something, or the brackets are in a different location on an older truck.  Either way, I'll want to check a diagram of how they are run on the newer truck.  I may need an intermediate cable between the front and rear cables, and it may not be a standard size.

Feeling a little worn out right now, so I'm probably done with working on the truck for the day.  May see about doing a little re-arranging so the Beetle can fit in the garage again.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
11/5/21 2:22 p.m.

No new progress since the last week, but I have reserved a 5x10 storage locker so I can haul some stuff out of the garage to get the beetle to fit, and so there will still be working room in the garage for the S10 over the winter.

I think my goal for it has gone from "Running by late spring" -> "Running well enough to drive up and down the driveway before the salt hits the roads" -> "Engine fires up before winter" -> "Spray a bit of oil in the cylinders, crank the starter over with an oil pressure gauge attached to make sure it builds pressure and distributes oil throughout the engine before winter".

Maybe it'll allow me time to work on things at a more relaxed pace, and hopefully be ready for the road in the spring.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
11/7/21 8:26 p.m.

Most of my spare time was spent taking stuff to storage, and rearranging the garage for the winter, but I did manage to get under the truck and take some measurements for the exhaust.  The passenger side hardware needs a 45 degree turn to get it level with the chassis, but the driver's side needs a 70, so I'll just cut a mandrel bend for that.  Everything else should be pretty simple.  I ordered a universal 2.5" kit, and a few extra parts, including some reducers so I could get the catalytic converters to fit.  For now, I'll terminate it a little past the back of the cab, and figure out the over the axle part later.  This'll be long enough to test fire it at some point. 

For the later part of it, I'm debating on whether to run the exhaust over the axle, merge it, then run it through a big diesel muffler or a cheap OEM-style replacement for the Sierra, or run it through a couple of glasspacks before the axle, then a flowmaster dual inlet muffler afterwards.  My preference will be for whatever is quieter without giving up any performance, but likely, I'll go with whichever option works out the cheapest.  I need to do some research but it looks like 2000's Dodges and Fords may provide mufflers with 3.5" and 4" inlets, so that should be more than sufficient for anything I'll be doing in the near future.  If anyone's got experience using OEM-style mufflers on a swap like this, would love to hear any suggestions.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
11/9/21 6:40 p.m.

Took the day off work, and managed to spend a little time working on the truck.  I measured, cut, and drilled a mounting plate for the shifter:

I also drilled a hole for the shift cable and did a little test fitting:

I think I may need to plug the hole and move it over to the side a bit.  There is also a vertical lip inside the cab that I may try, but am a little worried it'll force me to get a longer cable.   With it going out the bottom of the cab where it is, it may be difficult to route it away from the driveshaft.  Regardless of how it exits the cab, I think I will need to route it under the driver's side exhaust, as there just isn't enough room.  I don't like that, as I'm a bit worried it could snag one something, but I'm just not sure how to make everything fit in that tight of a space.  I may be able to move the exhaust crossover farther back that where I planned it, but if I do that, I'll need to add some clearance for up and down movement of the driveshaft.  Might be worth it. 

I'm going to try to wrap up the shifter mount soon, and maybe then I can use some spare pipe to fiddle around with exhaust/shifter cable routing ideas.  My exhaust tubing should be here tomorrow, so if I get some more good weather before winter weather hits, maybe I can even get part of it cut and welded in the the next few weeks.

 

 

 

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
11/13/21 9:29 p.m.

I need some hardware that I plan on picking up tomorrow morning before the shifter mounting bracket will be ready.  In the meantime, did a little looking around under the truck, and figured it will likely be impossible to get the shifter cable to go over the exhaust, but I may be able to tuck the exhaust up high enough for there to still be some decent ground clearance.

Also got around to cutting some heater hose to length and getting them connected, then went to work mocking up the intake system.  Here's what I came up with with what I have.

It took a bit of work to snake it around the radiator hose, the overflow hose, the steam vent hose, the battery location, the dipstick tube, and the oil fill tube, while also including the MAF sensor.  Obviously, the filter will need to be heat shielded from the header.  However, after watching a recent Engine Masters that covered cold air kits, I think I am going to get a cheap, small filter like they used in the comparison.  While it killed some power on their engine, it was still able to support way more power than I'll be making this go around.  And, a smaller filter will also be able to be shielded much more easily.  As a bonus, I may be able to run a small hose from behind the grill up towards the filter, to reduce intake temps a bit.  Another option would be to get a tune to ditch the MAF and stick with just the MAP sensor, but I'd rather not do that just yet.

I also shortened the throttle cable a smidge, to try to get the throttle to open fully when the accelerator pedal is pressed.  Need to test it next time someone else is in the garage.  There is still a tiny bit of slack, so there is room to shorten it more if need be.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
11/14/21 4:06 p.m.

With the hardware purchased, I did the final test fitting for the shifter.  Turns out I messed up a bit on one thing, so I had to dig into my stash, and there is a mix of SAE and metric hardware, but hopefully once this goes in next, it'll be there for a while.  I also redrilled the hole for the cable, so it will not interfere with the driveshaft.

If I'm smart, before it goes in permanently, I'll mark and drill the mounting holes for the passenger seat, or that'll have to wait until next spring.  The shifter mount is in the process of getting painted, though, so I really don't feel like sucking in fumes while playing with a power tools.  Maybe it'll get dealt with in the evening during the week.  I also need to run wiring leads for the Park/Neutral and Reverse switches to be integrated into the cab harness.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
11/15/21 10:52 a.m.

Just got the shipping notification for my driveshaft!  That'll be nice to have installed, since the ebrake is not currently functional.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
11/15/21 8:14 p.m.

Holes are drilled for the passenger seat.  Before either seat can be mounted, I need to go underneath with a dremel, and do a little trimming around the rear inner bolt holes.  The front ones are a bit more worrisome, especially on the passenger side.  They're at a pretty sharp angle, so I may just have to snug them up as much as possible, and use some red loctite to keep them from coming loose.  It's obvious from the shape of the floorboards that GM spot welded some brackets with studs onto the top of the floor for mounting them.  Maybe at some point in the future, I'll weld up the holes I drilled and fab up some brackets to mount them more securely.  Or, more likely, I'll switch to a different style of seat and have to fab up all the mounting brackets.  There is a chance this thing will be run in drag week in the future, and I'm not sure the current seats will allow the installation of a roll bar.

Probably won't get much done for the next couple of days, but next weekend may be the last one before the beetle rolls in the garage, so I may try to cut and weld up the exhaust while I have a decent amount of working room.

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