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BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
2/13/15 8:02 p.m.

Good news amongst the bad news is that they pulled the heads off, heads are OK and bores & pistons look to be in good shape, too.

I'll be visiting car and engine on Monday to discuss options...

Harvey
Harvey HalfDork
2/13/15 9:45 p.m.

Rough

amg_rx7
amg_rx7 SuperDork
2/13/15 10:14 p.m.

Well, that blows

Mad_Ratel
Mad_Ratel Reader
2/14/15 5:17 a.m.

Feel your pain, dad's 1983 has had 3 engines.

1: stock engine, piston cracked at 90k miles.

2: rebuilt engine: machinist "raced" the bearings by giving too much clearance, gives you a bit more power for a race motor but you have to rebuild every 5k miles or so. He got 20k miles before a bearing turned blocking oil flow then the piston hit the head and the connect rod it was connected to tore the entire block apart. that rebuild cost some dolla signs. (ported heads, new jugs, new pistons, new case, new oil cooler, racing cams had to be rewelded and ground from junk hitting them and wearing them early etc...

3: oil pump drive shaft snapped, this is between the cases, you basically have to take the ENTIRE motor apart to get to it... (heads off, jugs off, split cases, replace, put all back together.) Dad was so paranoid we bought brand new every bolt/washer etc and numbered them so that when done we could definitely confirm that everything had indeed been put in... as a result the motor is the best condition it's ever been in...

about a month later the car developed a VERY small but annoying oil leak. about a drop a day. you can see it on the pan every Porsche owner eventually owns to stop oil from hitting the garage floor. Looks like it's from one of the head oil return tubes, which requires taking the head back off to fix. (which means complete take out and about 500 bucks in one time use parts...)

that being said, she's 2600 lbs with a dyno'd at the wheels 210 hp. torque curve like table mtn and an absolute blast to drive. but I think he is done with it...

NOHOME
NOHOME UltraDork
2/14/15 5:47 a.m.

Thank you for reassuring me that all the fears of owning a 911 are true.They really do seem to be an endoscope for your wallet.

Mad_Ratel
Mad_Ratel Reader
2/14/15 6:17 a.m.
NOHOME wrote: Thank you for reassuring me that all the fears of owning a 911 are true.They really do seem to be an endoscope for your wallet.

not sure on the op but the breakdown of dad's 911 costs.

bought for 16k in 1996.

all motors and mods > 50k dollars.

car's value today? to the RIGHT person 30k.

granted mods include: complete 911 turbo suspension upgrades (bilstein green top shocks, turbo torsion bars, tie rods etc.) weltmeister front bar. corbeau "carrera" seats. (they had to change the name to A4 due to porsche suing them...) transmission has been rebuilt lately Momo steering wheel. Short shifter.

three motors... current has: webcam racing cam 993 supersport cam ported heads distributor with a rev limiter on it. new jugs/pistons with a higher compression rate. upgraded 964 oil pump (higher flow/pressure rating) timing chain guide upgrades CIS pop off correction fabspeed parts for intake SSI tuned length headers (old style) you could bake a cake in the car with the heat set to high. BB dual outlet exhaust.

new tires for the factory original fuchs wheels. (and all the sets he's used up in between.)

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
2/14/15 6:18 a.m.

very relevant to my interest

mbruneaux
mbruneaux New Reader
2/14/15 7:11 a.m.

Sorry for your engine costs, the driving experience is what makes it all worth it I'm sure. I thought Mallet had an LS conversion for the 996 but couldn't find it. One day I will follow you on this path I just need the kids to leave the house and the wife (Uber 911 fan) go back to work!!

http://www.renegadehybrids.com/

mazdeuce
mazdeuce PowerDork
2/14/15 8:19 a.m.

In reply to Mad_Ratel:

Thanks for breaking that down. My wife and I drive our 964 knowing that if we continue to enjoy it someday it will need a motor and it will be $$. We've resisted modifying it because of the $$ issue with parts for Porsches. There's always someone to help you spend your money on them.
The real question is why do these cars connect to people so strongly that they're willing to pay to support them? They're not terribly rare. They are great to drive but the normal C2 type cars aren't phenomenal performers. So why?
Why do my wife and I have two years and at least $20k dedicated to tearing our car down to a tub, having some minor issues repaired and putting it back together in our retirement? Some people plan a trip to Europe, we're planning on rebuilding our 911.
These cars are weird.

amg_rx7
amg_rx7 SuperDork
2/14/15 10:24 a.m.

I'm so glad I'm into RX7s

Jaynen
Jaynen Dork
2/14/15 11:21 a.m.

Isn't there another company who makes 911 v8 swaps also? I thought I remembered some not too fond comments about Renegade but I dont recall what they were about

Dang just noticed they have a boxster S conversion kit now too lol

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
2/14/15 7:13 p.m.

In reply to amg_rx7:

I like RX7s, too, especially FDs.

My last FD made my Porsche addiction look cheap.

Mr_Clutch42
Mr_Clutch42 Dork
2/15/15 4:01 p.m.

I was also wondering if a LS1 conversion would be cheaper to get back running (and maintaining).

Mad_Ratel
Mad_Ratel Reader
2/16/15 7:29 a.m.

as mazdeuce has said, there is something about the way the car comes originally that just cannot be beat. As a younger man I was all about the ls conversion of 911's. Now? it would just pervert the car. esp on the older vehicles...

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
2/16/15 9:28 a.m.

I'm not really as hot on LS swaps as a lot of people seem to be, for me the original engine type is often part of the appeal, be it the flat 6 in a Porsche or the rotary in an RX. I bought a 911 because I want the rasp of the flat 6 and not because I want a backwards 'vette .

Anyway, I'll be visiting the sick car in the hospital, err, shop later this morning in an attempt to spec a sensible refresh without blowing the budget completely.

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
2/16/15 2:06 p.m.

The current state of the 996 and its engine:

It's only partway stripped down so far, I agreed with the shop that they'll strip it to the point where they can assess the state of the bores and the heads before going further. So far everything looks like it's been inside a well maintained 100k mile engine so they're going to give me an estimate based on what we've seen so far and then continue stripping it down.

The worst parts so far really are the camchain guides, they're all somewhere between well worn and about to fall apart so the motor is getting new camchains and guides. We're also going to get the heads pressure- and leak tested, but so far the assumption is that everything will just go back together as is.

mazdeuce
mazdeuce PowerDork
2/16/15 4:46 p.m.

That's pretty much fantastic news all things considered.

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
2/16/15 6:05 p.m.

It is, but the bill by now is getting pretty close to $10k. However once done the engine should last for a while - I just hope this is not something that needs to be done every 100k miles.

mazdeuce
mazdeuce PowerDork
2/16/15 6:28 p.m.

In reply to BoxheadTim:

Which is really the question with these cars, isn't it? Air cooled maintenance schedules into the multiple 100k miles are pretty well known, but what if you want to reach 300k on a water cooled car?

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
2/16/15 8:23 p.m.

It is - there don't seem to be that many high mileage examples out there. I've seen a couple for sale that had around 200k on the odometer, but they were all projects.

Given the money I'm throwing at this one, I guess I'll have to find out if we have to redo the chain guide again in 100k.

carbon
carbon Dork
2/16/15 9:55 p.m.

Mayb this is a stupid question but…….How much is a not blowed up engine? In the circles I run in $10k buys a hell of a powerplant.

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
2/16/15 10:08 p.m.

Used one is $6k-$7k with no guarantee that it doesn't need the same work. At least with this one we know it was running well before the strip down...

Mitchell
Mitchell UltraDork
2/17/15 3:03 a.m.

What drives the expense in a Porsche engine? Is it the nameplate cast into the parts, or do they have something innate like material use or precise machinging that makes them more expensive than say, a domestic V8? Is it just economics of scale?

Mad_Ratel
Mad_Ratel Reader
2/17/15 9:36 a.m.
Mitchell wrote: What drives the expense in a Porsche engine? Is it the nameplate cast into the parts, or do they have something innate like material use or precise machinging that makes them more expensive than say, a domestic V8? Is it just economics of scale?

pretty much a combination of all three. In dad's 1983 it's the fact that the entire block is out of a special casting and there are not 10 million of them made...

for the 1983 pots/heads the pistons and cylinders need to be ordered as a pair as the cylinders have nykasil linings and are set up as pairs by mahle.

if you ever need a porsche g50 transmission you can call them and state the hp and they'll build it to that. price can go from standard parts for 5k. up until 50k for the transmission. (650hp).

the biggest factor really is economics of scale. you can call up any machine shop in the area and they'll be able to work on your chevy. have a problem with a porsche cylinder? you cannot just remachine it. You have to order a new one due to the coatings given to reduce friction.

need parts? there might be six shops in the country that can provide the parts you need. Usually for the older cars, repurposed parts not new... (always shop around for parts, porsche has new parts for stuff from the 70's even but you gotta pay through the nose for them.)

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
2/17/15 9:48 a.m.

I think it's economics of scale (the 996 engine is pretty rare compared to an LSJuan) and the cost of a factory engine (somewhere between $15k-20k) influencing the cost of a used engine.

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