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mke HalfDork
5/23/20 7:26 p.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

Yes hot and cold.  

Last time I took the heads to 350 and seats in liquid N2 but no way I'm allowed to go to the welding store during lock down so freezer which is at 0F and heads to 350F is the plan which is what the seat maker recomends anyway.  That is pretty close to damage the heat treat temp but after all the welding I don't think its a concern with these heads.  They also say neverseize, last time I used WD40...thinking about trying the neverseize this time around

frenchyd PowerDork
5/23/20 7:30 p.m.

In reply to mke :

I've never used anything.  Anything between the seat and the head will slow heat transfer. Plus it absorbs space which you're trying to eliminate.  

Crackers Dork
5/23/20 8:19 p.m.

R134a and a can tap.

mke HalfDork
5/24/20 2:06 p.m.

Tools made, heads on the barby, bits in the freezer, won't be long now.

SkinnyG (Forum Supporter)
SkinnyG (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
5/24/20 2:42 p.m.

I like how you size the Barbie according to Ferrari cylinder heads.  That's planning ahead for sure!

mke HalfDork
5/24/20 4:00 p.m.

In reply to SkinnyG (Forum Supporter) :

Some how I just knew picking the bigger of the 2 sizes would turn out the right choice smiley


Everything back in its place.  The destroyed chamber is starting to look normal.  I went with wd40 as the lube... anything left will evaporate and be gone.  Little parts warm up fast so I threw a big chunk of aluminum in the freezer with them and set them on that next to the bench while they were waiting there turn.  

Once they cool down I'll get cutting.

mke HalfDork
5/24/20 7:53 p.m.

Spent the evening honing the guides...they feel a whole lot better now and the valve drop onto there seats they way they should but really didn't before, which I blamed on the assembly lube but never actually cleaned it off and tested with light oil.....sloppy, sloppy, sloppy.....I just wanted it done so badly......live and learn

mke HalfDork
5/25/20 8:29 p.m.

So valve seat cutting did not go exactly as planned....so just like everything else.

I decided to start on intake casue there were way less to cut, just the 2 from the smashed chamber and 3 more where I replace wonky looking guides and it was the wonky guides that seemed to cause the issue.  ! head only needed 1 seat cut so thats where I started and had to cut about 30 off to clean it up because the best I can tell the wonky looking guided was just what it appeared and the center hole was angled.  When I cut the seats I put a 5mm pin in the guide and indicate it true at about the seat position so a slight wrong angle somewhere can't result in a valve that doesn't sit on its seat.  Then I replace the guide with a straight one which shifted the hole location a few thou and BAM, it can't be cleaned up without really sinking the valve and will need to be replaced.  i't will be 2-3 weeks before I have another seat I'm guessing.  In the pic, just above the red there is a more greyish area (from a quick lap) that is there towards the bottom and gone near the top right....that is where the valve is supposed to seat and clearly can't.

On the the next head.  The new seats cut WAY different as in way worse than the old seats, same part numbers but very clearly different material...that suck but not the end of the world.  Damaged chamber seats cut.  then I changed 2 guides...1 cleaned up at about 005 which is fine, the other at 015 so probably replace it.  that got me measuring things....hmmmm...why when I drop this valve in the holes in this head is it sitting .010 higher from the deck than when I drop it in the hole in the other head?  That is where I ended my night.  

Tomorrow I will check the cam to deck distance on both heads.  that will tell me if I need to take a bit off 1 head or recut the seats on the other head to make a matching pair.  Its not a big difference...but this is supposed to be the no more excuses build....wait a minute....why do the 2 new intakes look different from the old intakes?  Oh God damn it they changed the valve design again.  Last time I fought with them for months to get 24 that matched...this is a much smaller change.....and 22 more is 800.......fine they valves are close enough, first excuse  :(

New on the right, old, as in 3 years old and different from the 10 year old design on the left.  I need a new valve company......

Number1Gaza GRM+ Memberand Reader
5/25/20 8:40 p.m.

That sucks.  Then again, big picture, you're using motorcycle valves in a Ferrari head.  Hiccups are... not necessarily shocking.  Still gotta be extremely frustrating.  You are so far beyond the level of what I'm capable of I don't have any further comments.  Where's the bowing to Buddha GIF when you need it.  Anyway hope you get it figured out soon.  

mke HalfDork
5/25/20 9:41 p.m.

In reply to Number1Gaza :

I guess the valves keep changing issue is they are race parts (as in do NOT direct fit ANY OEM application)  for a vehicle that is very actively being raced, which means the parts are still in active development and normally when you do a rebuild you replace the set so it wouldn't matter to most people that they changed.  Luckily I didn't go with my first choice of 32mm intakes as they have been discountinued and only the 34mm I switched to at the last minute are still made, but now ever so slightly lighter it looks light at the expense of a little compression.  I KNOW its nothing to worry about and were I not so OCD.....I need to get back to checking all the valve for make sure they are either straight after dinging the pistons....I might not have a choice but to replace the set although I very honestly don't have any money left in the budget so I REALLY want to save what I can or it could be another year before it runs. 



mke HalfDork
5/26/20 7:00 a.m.

OK, damaged chamber head is .010 thinner than the other, so I just need to face the other head 10 and they will match.  I checked all the intake seat and most are within .005 high to low with just a couple sitting a bit higher so I'll re-touch those and 3 sitting low and those were already slated for new seats.  

Still annoyed about the mismatching intake valves......but I guess it won't actually hurt anything and I do want to finish at some point.....I need to get setup and check all the valves and then decide.  

Sadly HomeDepot delivered most of my stuff yesterday so I need to get back to that work for a bit but that will give the new seats time to get here and maybe have time to really look at the valves

LanEvo Dork
5/26/20 10:49 a.m.

How do we vote for the new king of GRM? Is there a mail-in ballot or something?

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
5/26/20 11:56 a.m.

In reply to LanEvo :

This is currently featured on the GRM home page. smiley

mke HalfDork
5/26/20 6:42 p.m.

LOL...its hard to say no to heads on the barbie, especially testarossa ("redhead")

I still question my decision to 308QV satin aluminum the cam covers instead of testarossa red them.  I don't know....I've always had a weakness for redheads......

NorseDave Reader
5/26/20 8:43 p.m.

I'm almost surprised you're not making the valves yourself....

mke HalfDork
6/2/20 9:33 a.m.

I worked pretty hard last week trying to get my outside work done and be free of it.  It stilll needs the patio stone but I like to let things settle a bit whenever possible so I don't end up laying the pavers twice....its done until next spring I think, plus i don't have the paver stones or money to buy them so another excuse.

Here's before and after...quite a change....there is talk of extending the stting wall on the right to the end of the patio and maybe creating a raised bed behind it, but that's next year if it happens as the gound here is clay and rock so spring is the only time it can be dug for free with the shovle vs renting an excavator with money that should be going to the car.


And remember all this was just a distraction...the assigned project was the basement, which needed more enatural light....and like 5 months later.....

Just got the tracking number of the intake seats, they should be here Thursday.....the same day the wood for the basement ceiling comes which will make focusing on the basement a bit harder.  Trying to keep the ceiling as high as possible so the plan is replace the soot filled fiberboard trunk runs that are 10" tall with metal runs that are 8" but the same inside size.  Then take the 2x10s and rip them to a true 8" and screw them up to the joists parallel to the new trunks so the drywall goes no flush to the bottom of the trunks....needs a bit more planning and building in the right sequence but it should be nice....but at least 2 weeks work I'm guessing.  

After that I'm not sure. I know Lana wants the ceiling up (which will lead to wanting the walls done) but wiring and lights are next and probably needs $1500-$2000 that I don't really have and there was never any budget for this project so in my mind it needs to wait until the crank is reground and the engine put back together....not looking forward to that conversation.

But intake seats are coming is the take away  smiley  

Syscrush New Reader
6/4/20 6:12 a.m.

In principle, I'm here for crazy V12 Ferrari action - not basement renos and retaining walls.

In practice: that is beautiful work, you should be proud of it, and I'm looking forward to seeing what comes next.

mke HalfDork
6/4/20 7:44 a.m.

I know.  I included it because its the price for starting the car in the basement, after I was specifically told not to, and setting the basement on fire......it was a very VERY expensive mistake in both time and money.


Intake seats should be here today and our county goes to "yellow" so I can probably talk my darlying wife into letting me drive to the machineshop with the crank soon.  Not sure what I'm going to do with the cylinder liners yet.....I need yo opnen that box and have a look.  I'm cloe to ready to assemble.

Greg Smith (Forum Supporter)
Greg Smith (Forum Supporter) Dork
6/4/20 8:49 a.m.

Agreed. What you have done with the basement is not only high quality work, but it suits the house and looks like it could have been originally designed that way. 

mke HalfDork
6/7/20 12:49 p.m.

The valve seats made it yesterday.

Sadly they are sitting not because I'm knocking out the ductwork, no it's because we decided most of the dirt in front of the patio wall would look better leveling out the planting bed around the pool, it only need to come up about a foot and the roses just went in the fall so so they'll be easy to move ..but now it wants more grass...that's ok, just go edge everything  so mot only is it ready to mulch but you can use the grass as plugs to jumpstart the new lawn...you know, the grassroots :) I'm really tired.....and I think wife and kids will be handling the mulch....think

In reply to mke :

That's a beautiful place you've got! I admire your ability to do so many things so well.

Syscrush New Reader
6/8/20 12:32 p.m.

I think it has to be said that Lana's ideas do seem to be improving the place once executed. You make a good team.

mke HalfDork
6/9/20 7:38 a.m.

Thanks.  Its taken a lot of work to get it to the current state, at least yard wise.  The V12 project was kinda my present to myself for "finishing" the yard.  I don't think I posted this but way back in 2004 we bought the house, new construction, close to my job, lowest taxes around, a lot that allowed a walkout so I could have a shop in the basement and we both got what was important to us, moved in spring of 2005.  Looking out trying to grow a yard and it was the peak of the boom so the value had already gone up over 10%, I suggested that before the lawn grows in nice maybe we should take the equity and do a pool and get the yard how we want it. After some back and forth we called a pool company, they do free design...they did some options....I did some options......but nothing was what Lana had in mind....in a panic with dig day in just 3 weeks we called a landscape architect the pool guy knew and he had someone do a design, it was clearly rushed with a patio covering a basement window and a few other issues I fixed but Lana approved the rough layout and the dig happened.   

This is where it got fun.  One side of the "inground pool" was oh, 6 feet above the ground, nothing in the rough layout about that.  Then quotes for the rest of the work started coming in and it was clear that while the pool people would be at $40k as promised the $60k total budget as in 60-40 leave 20  that could maybe stretch another 10k if we hit the credit cards was not going to cover what was shaping up to be a 200+k project the way it was designed....and remember the pool was already dug and steel and plumbing in by now.  Lana's in tears because she was the one who insisted on the landscape guy and I had cautioned that it looked way more expensive than what me and the pool guy were drawing.....but he was a professional and I litterally knew nothing about any of this so I should shut up and by now the pool was dug......we fired the landscape guy as he was trying to explain about construction phases and not seeming to understand the words "TOTAL BUDGET!".......Lana's still in tears but now its my fault becasue I'm the one who said pool.....I don't know hon......I did some checking and its mostly labor, the fence material for the one you like is 5-6k (quote was 20k installed, yup just the fence took us to the top of the budget), we need about 1200 cinderblocks so $1200 plus another couple grand in concrete for the footers.....some machine rentals....pavers will be the biggest expense....my brother is a mason so at least I have someone to call with questions.....I think I could build this on budget. 

That was the hardest 2 years of my life.  I worked some long days in horrible weather leading me to believe I deserved a car project in my new basement shop to relax.....yeah sure we had a child just as I was mostly finished who was 6 months or so but how much work could that be?  so car project it is!, never mind that the car still ran at this point and just needed a bit better ECU to sort out a few issues it was having, what it didn't need was a new engine. So yeah, I make poor choices and never seem to learn from the experience, but at least now, 15 years later the house is probably worth what I paid for it, not counting the pool or new shop, because we bought in teh only frikin place in the country that didn't recover from 2008, at least it was before all the covid stuff....poor choices...... 


mke HalfDork
6/10/20 8:07 a.m.

It is officially too hot to dig so outside construction is finished until at least fall, which means 5he only thing in my way is the basement ducts....so let the duct work (finally) begin!

I'm sure there will be materials missing breaks and I'll try to get the intake seats done in those time windows.  I think I need to get the bearings in the block and at least a couple rods so I can drop them off along with the crank so the crank is ground to match...the plan is give them the clearances I want thinking it will end up 8 or 9 under but give them a no more than 10 command just in case the new bearings aren't loose like the last set.  We have moved into a yellow phase with covid so I need to go to the office now occasional, so a trip to the machine shop can be accomplished I think.

mke HalfDork
6/24/20 7:50 p.m.

Just a quick "I'm not dead yet" type post.  The scooted up house ducts are all replaced and I started running the nrw basement feed truck....which was WAAAAY easier in my head than in reality...there it a 1/2 clearance so it "fits"....but that 1/2"does not make the installation easy, pretty much everything needs to be done in exactly the right order or it becomes impossible....much like the way I designed the frankenferrari intake manifolds, you'd think I'd learn.....well the manifolds have maybe 50 thou clearance so this is 10x better I guess, but it doesn't seem better.  maybe 2 more days and ducts should be done. yay.

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