FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Karacticus said:

mke said:

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Plus I THINK as not easy as doing the column is looking its still easier than finding a proper replacement rack and fitting it in without moving frame members.

I do wonder if the rack vs column is more about the turning the design?  When I was googling I saw stuff like ford explorer racks and a lot of stuff like that is sold to moms who wan tot to ride nice and be easy to drive. maybe?  or as you suspect its just inferior....I don't know.

I was reading something about feel the other day...don't recall if it was an article or a post, but the gist was the idea that modern cars don't have any steering feel had a lot to do with modern car don't have a lot of weird vibrations the feel.  I think it was about a F458 having a lot of assist and very little wheel movement (like 1.33 turns) and the first reaction was "oh my god this is awful!" followed by feel fast lap times and more understanding for why its like that. 

This is all what got me thinking that being able to adjust the assist is probably required to get a nice setup though.

Whether it's true or not, at one of the BMW CCA gatherings I was at, a guy from BMW NA was blaming a lot of the changes in steering feedback on dialing out tram lining with wide, large diameter wheels. 

I don't mind the EPS on my 2016 base Civic. Might have something to do with the 215/55-16 tires and the calibration for them.

Bought this little guy to see what all goes on between the steering unit and the hack box.  there are probably even cheaper options but this looked easy to use which makes it my speed I hope.  The fiesta EPS is kind of chunky and annoyingly shaped but  have myself convinced I'll get a better outcome than the much cleaner prius setup.....this should help me figure out if that is true.   

Thanks for digging into this. there's a world of builders out here waiting to see what you find out

That's 1 side...hopefully the quickener shows up today so I can have a look at side 2

The quickener arrived about 3:30 and has been kicking my butt since.....but I think I finally have something workable shaping up.  The shafts are rock hard and the gear part needs to stay that way so I dropped the gear end in water and heated the rest

Then the one housing got shortened 1/2" and the shaft about 1.25" and will be adapted to the OEM u-joint that locks on with a taper pin...they are 3" over-all and the shortest I found and I have it.  The other housing piece will get shortened more and  the seal and 1 of the 2 bearings removed as there is a bearing in the EPS unit then welded to the EPS housing cover.  The shaft will get cut and bores to slip over the EPS shaft which also gets cut and I'll pin them together.  Then the steering column gets shortened about 2" so the u joint sits up against the bearing retaining nut....and there should be just enough room for the steering wheel height adjustment to still work....at least in theory.

After a full day of making stuff shorter it all fits.  Left to do:

1) The top u-joint uses a taper pin so I need to get a reamer for that

2) Connect the quickener housing to the EPS housing

3) Some kind of cover for the big hole I cut lest I be BLASTED with hot radiator air

4) Wire up and test the EPS

that was quick, how many turns lock- lock?

the quickener will definitely help catch those 900bhp tail slides on such a short wheelbase

Rigante said:

that was quick, how many turns lock- lock?

 

the quickener will definitely help catch those 900bhp tail slides on such a short wheelbase

It should end up 1.6 turns but I'm not quite far enough along to be able to check it, this was just the first test fit where it at least fit into the space.  Up at the column (yellow arrow) the u joint is still a slip fit and sitting about 1/8" higher than I'd like and down where the quickener shaft meets the EPS shaft (green arrow) its also still a slip fit and that is where I need to cut another 1/8 out before I weld it I guess.  Then not clearly visible is the quickener is hitting the bulkhead on top and I really can't get to the EPS connectors....probably 2-3 more full days before it works then another couple days on the how to close the big hole I cut problem.

It's 1.6 after the quickener...that's pretty crazy how slow it was stock!  Do you know the steering ratio as it compares with lock-to-lock?  

sobe_death said:

It's 1.6 after the quickener...that's pretty crazy how slow it was stock!  Do you know the steering ratio as it compares with lock-to-lock?  

It was 3.2 lock to lock (and a lot of work to turn at parking speed), so with a 2:1 quickener that becomes 1.6 lock to lock.  It that you're question?

This is a TR, but the 308 is about the same (lighter car but smaller steering wheel)....you work to park it.

Edit: and I was wrong about the price, the EZ steer kit is $2600 plus shipping.

Really interested in this. I have been scheming for awhile on how to integrate a quickener with EPS so this is great. I'm taking the easy way out and moving to a hydraulic rack with a better ratio. Following along.

I was more asking about the ratio, i.e.  15:1, 16:1, etc.. The ratio of steering angle to front wheel angle.

sobe_death said:

I was more asking about the ratio, i.e.  15:1, 16:1, etc.. The ratio of steering angle to front wheel angle.

Ahh...that I do not know and don't really have a good way to check it that I can think of ? 

when I get the wheels turning I'll see if I can figure some way to get close.

Its so close to steering again.  I shortened the quickener another 3/8", machined the housing to accept a clamp to secure it to the EPS (but still need to make said clamp), welded the shafts together, drilled a hole for the pin at the steering column, cut a notch to clearance the quickener, cut away a chuck of the EPS housing to expose the wires which should let me mount the controller in the cabin with no additional work.

I'm probably just a nervous nellie, but that welded shaft freaks me right out.

Syscrush said:

I'm probably just a nervous nellie, but that welded shaft freaks me right out.

There is a certain amount of "you're not wrong" but its pretty common on race and custom cars to find welds in the steering shaft and many components are sold as "weld-on"....I guess the key is making sure the welds are actualy WELDED :)

It steers again.  A few little mechanical things left and then on to getting the EPS powered up.

<takes furious notes>

The shaft welding is why my EPAS job is going to a fab shop, but I'll take this tread along :)

mke said:

Syscrush said:

I'm probably just a nervous nellie, but that welded shaft freaks me right out.

There is a certain amount of "you're not wrong" but its pretty common on race and custom cars to find welds in the steering shaft and many components are sold as "weld-on"....I guess the key is making sure the welds are actualy WELDED :)

Well OK then...

 Very exciting progress here. Good luck with all of it!

In reply to Syscrush :

LOL.  That movie ha been pooping up in my life about once a week for the last 5 or 6 months....I finally watched it about 2 months ago.  This was last week driving home....Tha Dude.

I was looking over the forum this morning and on a thread with a pretty nice racecar build I spotted this column.  The quick release for the steering wheel is welded on and the for the upper bearing and everything else all the way out to the wheels I assume.....a build means welding, steering shafts, rack mounts, A-arms and they all need to stay welded. 

My biggest concern here is I really don't know what any of the metals are exactly.  I know the quickener shafts were hard and it was pretty cheap and the shafts were drilled to keep weight down or to help with heat treating?  you can kind of tell about what it is by "spark testing " it which just means seeing what the sparks look like and I'm pretty sure it plain carbon steel and not stupid high carbon so 1070? maybe which isn't ideal for welding but not horrible.   You usually see the cracks if its going to crack....usually.....so I am with you on welding here is not without risk and perhaps more than normal...but it welded nice and the weld look good so I"m going to they are good :)

I had some house work to do so not a lot of car time but I did have a look at where the steering controller could live with minimal effort and extended the motor wires to allow it to happen.

Well, I was feeling bad about wasting my time on steering with the engine sitting and checked on my mcmaster order for the lapping bar......it jumped back up to 3-4 weeks with Apr 6 the date....plenty of time to finish the steering

Here's the pretty much final assembly.  I still need to make a bracket/torque arm but I wasn't loving the ideas I had so I decided to have a drink instead.

What does Loctite 263 taste like?

In reply to Nader :

I was going to recommend against drinking it...

ejs262 said:

In reply to Nader :

I was going to recommend against drinking it...

"Earl here mixed up his Slim-Fast with his Stop-Leak and ended up with a Civic radiator and a sort of strained look on his face"