Nice! I am trying to get my son to print a velocity stack for my Europa......
Nice! I am trying to get my son to print a velocity stack for my Europa......
Love it.
Everytime I open this build thread I am reminded: 12 is a big number. It just looks like there are extra of everything (in the best way).
That is a print without touch-up work???
Pete. (l33t FS) said:That is a print without touch-up work???
Yes, as printed.
I tried running the prints faster with thicker layers, I got supports with no stacks. Take 3
Ok, I did it
My plan is a fiberglass housing that fits over the filter and fender flange to connect it to the now larger duct. I taped up the filter and spray foamed....but I had no where near enough. Tomorrow
Didn't get a lot of time yesterday and my spray foam wasn't fully hard...made a sticking mess of the bandsaw. So Stack production continues
It turns out getting the printer setup just right takes a little playing. If the supports are too light the part tears off in the machine and only supports come out
[attachment=4]20230119 8.jpg[/attachment]
Too strong and the supports tear away chunks of the stack when I remove them
right now they hold and break off nice but I should have a more because the bottom isn't formed perfect (but I decided I don't care..its the bottom)
The screws came and look about right
I hope to start doing some fiberglass on the filter later today
What if you print them the other way round? That way the surface that really matters should be clean.
Gzwg said:What if you print them the other way round? That way the surface that really matters should be clean.
Yes, that is what I'm doing now. If you look at the last 2 pics the stack with the screws (which looking at it really should change to button head) are clean on the airflow side and that is the same stack in the pic above it so a little rough and not quite right on the bottom side where I don't care really so its fine. I'll chuck the 2 stacks I printed with supports on the flow side. Live and learn.
I'm also not quite sure what I'm going to do with the last 2 that run into the airbox ends a bit the way I made the box. I designed stacks that are cut to fit but I know I need to cut most of the end/side out of the box for air flow so I'll probably hold of on making those couple stacks until I know for sure how much space I have.
An airfilter is supposed to be a simple project but man I have of way of making things hard.....
Still working on fitting the filter...I decided more cutting was needed to get the vent to curve deep enough, which meant adding more spray foam and waiting for it to dry. I went ahead and made a foam plug for the other side so that will be ready when I need it too
Then moved on to the ducting. Then plan is an oval with about the same area as a 4" round. I made a bunch of pieces and will miter than glue them. My hope is I can get it looking decent then fiberglass then pour in some acetone or similar to remove the foam. Im thinking epoxy resin as the polyester will also dissolve the foam. If that doesn't work out I'll use the epoxy/glass piece to make a mold but that is more work so hopefully this goes to plan the 1st time.
In reply to mke :
I have had reasonable success with the disappearing foam technique with carbon fibre pre-woven tube and MGS epoxy resin. Do you have vacuum bagging equipment?
In reply to TurnerX19 :
I do have a pretty kick butt vacuum pump I got when I was thinking Carbon for the wheels and keep thinking about it for a new lighter rear deck lid but have not actually used it other than to turn it on once.
For this though I was just thinking glass mat and whatever resin I can get cheap that won't eat the foam...marine repair or something like that maybe as I'm not after strength just not polyester. I've not tried this before though so I may be making plans I'll soon regret.
Top cover needs the Gemmalocativo logo instead of quatrovalvole, or keep that and delete the Ferrari. I chose the MGS in the beginning of my composite adventure because it had the highest operating temperature for a cured component. Not a serious concern given the great volume of fresh air this will see. I wets out superbly too, but I have not found it in small enough volume for a single airbox project. This airbox does provide a great starter for beginning vacuum bagging. Your first piece will not be pretty, but it very well might be functional. A wrap of peel ply will have almost as much strength gain with very little labor too.
In reply to TurnerX19 :
Yeah, picking the right product quite a challenge. While read I came across this on a FAQ page and had to chuckle
36. I need an epoxy to build a thermonuclear support valve which is subject to temperatures above 1000F and come into contact with hydrochloric acid and aromatic hydrocarbons.
Are you the guy who called last week? We are certainly happy to hear about your idea and attempt to make a recommendation. While we are very familiar with the epoxies that we sell, there are still many untried uses and developmental projects that we are not able to solve. Many of these projects require testing by our customers of several different products which is why we package our epoxies in small quantity kits for purchase.
I'm pretty sure the factory ducts were just chopped glass in polyester and they lived. It looks like the boat epoxies are about the same HDT as the polyesters why down around 120-150F so a define might work 
I did some vacuum bagged parts for an FSAE car way back so I'm at least familar-ish I"m just not fully convinced its worth the bother for a part like this. I was however strongly considering plastic wrapping my foam and just using polyester so normal body filler with stick to make it pretty. I don't know.....
The filter housing bit is a bugger though, I know that. The space is way too tight to work in so I need to carve the foam plug to fit than I guess glass it and see what I have, knowing it will be bad and just plan on lots of rework steps.
How about a negative tool and very light internal air pressure to get the shape and out side finish you would like to see. A two piece tool could be fairly easy one to make.
In reply to mke :
Some Lotus Elans use polyester airboxes with carbs that make quite a lot of spray back at certain times. They were sloppily made with random mat, and they all warp in service. A lot. Not in a totally predictable manner either, see sloppily made! The MGS HDT was (by memory) 132F. Many small aircraft use it in firewall applications. It also achieves best cured strength with 13 hours at 130F. That was a task with the Elite monocoque!
Steve posted while I was typing. I have used the two piece technique with success as well, and would play well into adding a logo with a shallow draft angle, something the original Ferrari piece distinctly lacks. Inner mod part could be as simple as a flat plate with radiused corners.
A 2 piece female mold is the fall back plan. I know I can make a nice part that way but it adds a week or so to the process so I'm hoping to avoid it...bit yeah, it's on the table and when the parts warps it will be easy to make a replacement.
The way this is all going to work is 1 piece gets bonded to the fender. The filter drops into that and press/locks rear metal flange. That it the part I'm doing the spray foam plug for. It could be bonded bonded and body color, but right now the plan is black and bonded with rtv or similar...or maybe ill get facncy and screw it.
The air box it alum and I'll flanges on each end, probably with a nice radius for flow then an inch or so for the duct to slip over. This will be wrinkle red like a 308QV plenum....a proper ferrari engine needs red on top and should be a nice accent to the alum cam covers.
The ducts I'm making from the green foam will be black and will just kind of blend in while hiding all the wires and hoses. It will slip fit the air box and probably clamp to the filter exist if I have enough room, if not I remove the rubber piece from the filter and use screws, which is kind of better because it makes have a radius flow opening a lot easier.
Just way more work than I was realizing 
I'll see what I have tomorrow
I found a couple old videos which demonstrate the blower whine the V12 project is supposed to fix.
This is the 308 engine with an eaton mp90 blower at 10psi on the dyno
This is the same engine with a lysholm ax2300 blower at 24psi at an autocross,
I mean...the blower whine on a Ferrari is pretty rad though.
So is a V12 308.
In reply to AxeHealey :
There is something to be said for blower whine but then everyone knows I'm cheating 
I was digging through old stuff in my engine sim files and decided to model the QV engine with the blowers. Here's the simulator's idea of V12 vs blown V8...it says they are the same up to around 4k so maybe my memory has faded a bit because I don't recall the V8 feeling anyting like the V12
I'm not unhappy with this. I don't like the way the nose of the filter looks, the chrome has to go but I'll probably also try to print a nose piece for it to give it a more vent opening like shape and see how that looks. The other option I'm pondering is maybe reshaping it but a printed piece is easier so I'll stat there once the system is functional.
K&N flow lots, but don't filter that well [ugh blasphemy] do these support 450 BHP each? or will it just rip them up
Rigante said:K&N flow lots, but don't filter that well [ugh blasphemy] do these support 450 BHP each? or will it just rip them up
And not just flow 400+hp of air, do it stuffed in a clearly too small space connected to probably too small ducting. I don't love anything about what I'm building right now but I'm not really sure what else to do so it continues.
The only other real thought I had was put a box behind the engine but then the ducting get long and twisty and/or goes over the much to pretty to hide cam covers.
Last night it occurred to me I could redo the deck lid bump tall enough to let me build them into the air box. Or maybe some how build into the ducts.
In 15 years I just never gave this any though and now I'm paying for that.
The chrome is just awful and probably more painful to look at in person than the pics if that's possible. Satin black, the same I plan to paint the duct for sure but also maybe something like this snapped on the front..its not right yet but you get the idea, kind of match the shape of the duct on that front face so it looks like it belongs there.
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