Fubaru -76 Dino 308 GT4 -turbo Subaru swap project

crankwalk wrote:

MrJoshua wrote:

Curmudgeon wrote: More than once I have pondered the wisdom of stuffing an SVX boxer six in a 914.

Sounds like your next challenge project is a callin!

And when you do your cable shifters make a set for me too. Ha!

I cannot believe I am saying this , but I think I'd try to emulate the later 914 'side shift' rod type linkage. What's a little more blasphemy?

Curmudgeon wrote: I cannot believe I am saying this , but I think I'd try to emulate the later 914 'side shift' rod type linkage. What's a little more blasphemy?

Yeah when finished it would be more simple but it would take myself far longer to fab that than shifter cables unfortunately. Also I can snake the cables through everything easier as well.

Ok I'm going to go ahead and do that brakes on the gt4 now. From what I have found out it looks like I will need 84-89 911 front calipers with 24 mm spacing and then 914/6 rear calipers (which seem like a bear to find)

Any ATE brake part gurus out there?

Thanks!

This is fantastic.

That wonky boxer sound coming out of a Ferrari is so wrong. I love it.

These types of things get tossed around in theory, but it's awesome to see you actually going forth with it. In the end, you'll have a reliable car that's likely going to be faster than the original. The engine isn't as sexy, but it's still a Ferrari. In the end, you're going to turn heads with it.

gamby wrote: This is fantastic. That wonky boxer sound coming out of a Ferrari is so wrong. I love it. These types of things get tossed around in theory, but it's awesome to see you actually going forth with it. In the end, you'll have a reliable car that's likely going to be faster than the original. The engine isn't as sexy, but it's still a Ferrari. In the end, you're going to turn heads with it.

Thank you sir! That was my thinking with it. Even if it's a POS I still see a Ferrari in the garage every morning and still smiles after these past few years. I think it will all be worth it in the end. It'd a lot of money and and LOT of time and work but I'm determined.

As I said previously, it went from "It would be an interesting idea" to "Wow, I'm just a few steps away from firing this up" in maybe a month. Nothing happened for so long in the planning and research/ purchasing parts phase. It's hard to stay motivated sometimes but honestly seeing all the great build people have on here and getting feedback and help from members does a TON for me.

There's a lull in the progress right now as I'm building up the funds for the next big purchases and mocking up some shapes for the motor mounts with cardboard. It should pick up again shortly though.

crankwalk wrote: Ok I'm going to go ahead and do that brakes on the gt4 now. From what I have found out it looks like I will need 84-89 911 front calipers with 24 mm spacing and then 914/6 rear calipers (which seem like a bear to find) Any ATE brake part gurus out there? Thanks!

Not here, but the great thing about this place is that in a day or so somebody will suggest something obscure like Mazda6 or Ford Scorpio 1984 - 88 with exact same size brake parts for a fraction of the P-parts costs.. (I hope I didn't get your hopes up with a solution).

OHSCrifle wrote: Not here, but the great thing about this place is that in a day or so somebody will suggest something obscure like Mazda6 or Ford Scorpio 1984 - 88 with exact same size brake parts for a fraction of the P-parts costs.. (I hope I didn't get your hopes up with a solution).

Well compared to F car, the P car prices are great.

I had a little progress this weekend. Me and a buddy ran a battery cable and I primed the bonnet and did high temp BBQ paint on the underside.

Ran it through the factory grommet. You can see my measurements written down.

I still need to bend the intercooler bracket down slightly but I'll have decent heat extraction from the vent. Eventually I'd like to run a tube to feed cold air to the IC from the scoop on the drivers side. The passengers side has the intake already in there. I need a filter and Subaru maf adapter for it though, darn Ebay getting outbid at the last minute.

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Is there a particular reason you'd absolutely have to use the 914-6 rear calipers? Reason I ask is yes they are gonna be a bear to find and stupid expensive. Is there maybe a Mercedes etc caliper that might work? I see that the 914-4 is 33mm and the 308/914-6 is 38mm bore. If you have to replace all 4 calipers, maybe downsize the fronts and the master cylinder to accomplish the same braking?

Paging AngryCorvair to the caliper shaped courtesy phone...

Curmudgeon wrote: Is there a particular reason you'd absolutely have to use the 914-6 rear calipers? Reason I ask is yes they are gonna be a bear to find and stupid expensive. Is there maybe a Mercedes etc caliper that might work? I see that the 914-4 is 33mm and the 308/914-6 is 38mm bore. If you have to replace all 4 calipers, maybe downsize the fronts and the master cylinder to accomplish the same braking? Paging AngryCorvair to the caliper shaped courtesy phone...

No there is no reason I HAVE to use those calipers I just know those work. 911 fronts are easy to find and cheap through my friends NAPA discounts. I want something in the rear that has the right bolt spacing that just goes on but I really don't care what it comes from honestly. That's why I threw that out there that anything ATE branded that will bolt up. So you are saying the only difference in the 4 and 6 cyl 914 rear calipers is the size of the piston? I also thought the 6 had a bigger spacer in there to fit the larger rotor.

If it comes down to piston size I really don't care then. If it fits thats the only goal.

crankwalk wrote: Well compared to F car, the P car prices are great.

Touche

crankwalk wrote:

Curmudgeon wrote: Is there a particular reason you'd absolutely have to use the 914-6 rear calipers? Reason I ask is yes they are gonna be a bear to find and stupid expensive. Is there maybe a Mercedes etc caliper that might work? I see that the 914-4 is 33mm and the 308/914-6 is 38mm bore. If you have to replace all 4 calipers, maybe downsize the fronts and the master cylinder to accomplish the same braking? Paging AngryCorvair to the caliper shaped courtesy phone...

No there is no reason I HAVE to use those calipers I just know those work. 911 fronts are easy to find and cheap through my friends NAPA discounts. I want something in the rear that has the right bolt spacing that just goes on but I really don't care what it comes from honestly. That's why I threw that out there that anything ATE branded that will bolt up. So you are saying the only difference in the 4 and 6 cyl 914 rear calipers is the size of the piston? I also thought the 6 had a bigger spacer in there to fit the larger rotor. If it comes down to piston size I really don't care then. If it fits thats the only goal.

From what I saw, the 914-6 caliper has a larger bore than the 914-4 and for a 308 there's a spacer which makes the caliper wide enough to fit over the vented rotors. The 914-6 rotor is supposed to be only about 2-3 mm larger diameter than the 914-4.

This thread covers a lot of the differences:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-914-914-6-technical-forum/588094-914-4-vs-914-6-rear-calipers.html

The 914-4 and 914-6 both have the parking brake built into the caliper. There's other calipers out there like that, the Miata comes to mind. As far as bolting up to the original mounting, caliper adapters are not hard to make.

A quick Google shows that a Volvo 740/760 uses a 38mm ATE caliper on the rear. http://www.ipdusa.com/products/8641/110590-left-rear-38mm-ate-caliper-740-760

No park brake mechanism, but that's not a terrible thing. Forklifts used a disc type parking brake with a mechanical caliper, that might work. There's also a hydraulic 'line lock' which can be installed in the rear brake line, you apply the brakes, flip the lever and it locks the rear brakes on.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Park-Lok-Hydraulic-Brake,1970.html?utm_medium=CSE&utm_source=CSEGoogle&utm_campaign=CSEGOOGLE&CAWELAID=1268477572&catargetid=1784208710&cagpspn=pla&gclid=CI-hpZKrm7UCFQeynQodSVIANw

^ I just don't want the added complexity of making a caliper bracket. I've done it before but it's one more thing you know? I want something that bolts up no matter how big or small the caliper.

EDIT: That picture you posted is really helpful and VERY interesting!

I'm not worried about a parking brake at all.

Also 740/760s are in junkyards all day long down here. I'll have to do some more research about the Volvo calipers and I don't know how I missed that.

Specs for the rear brakes. 20 mm rotor width and edit 3 inch bolt spacing for the calipers

Playing with some of the junk calipers I have around the garage. This is a 914 rear. It has the right bolt spacing but the gap for the rotor is only 15mm and doesn't fit. SO i'd have the find the right spacer and bolts for that somewhere.

Then I found a (iirc) a 320i front caliper which has the right bolt spacing AND gap for the rotor but I didn't have time to bolt it up to see if it would hit the wheel. The offset of the rear wheels is super tight to the brakes/suspension back there. The wheels are 14 x 7.5 and while I love the look of the 14s, I might have to go to some 16 inch Campagnolo replicas to fit what I can back there.

So, anyway if anybody knows of any other 20mm gap/ 3 inch bolt spacing caliper choices, post them up! Looking at the Volvo options I'll have to measure one at the junkyard next time I go. From the picture it looks like they have a 15 mm rotor gap too since I don't see a spacer.

So for the 914 caliper - since it fits the mounts - why not get a chunk of aluminum and make a spacer to the width you need? Mark the holes, drill them - or have a machine shop do it. I think you can also use the spacers found in porsche M calipers to get the vented rotor width (911s up to 1975 - mounts may be different, but spacer is the same dimensions).

oldtin wrote: So for the 914 caliper - since it fits the mounts - why not get a chunk of aluminum and make a spacer to the width you need? Mark the holes, drill them - or have a machine shop do it. I think you can also use the spacers found in porsche M calipers to get the vented rotor width (911s up to 1975 - mounts may be different, but spacer is the same dimensions).

Well also those calipers are junk and need to be rebuilt and I think I have two drivers side rear. I just wanted to find one that meets the requirements and then I can buy loaded rebuilt calipers really cheap through Napa.

It looks to me like the 320 caliper has a spacer in it already. Is it possible to use that spacer in the 914 caliper?

OBTW, I checked Alldata and the Volvo rotors are 10mm thick solid. Won't work with your setup. Long shot: if you can use the Volvo rear rotors on your hubs...

check Lincoln LS or S197 Mustang rear calipers. Both are designed for 20mm thick rotors. They are sliding calipers, so clearance to the wheel spokes should be better -- but clearance to the inside diameter of the rim may be worse. not sure about the axial offset or the spacing of the mounting holes.

EDIT: these calipers have integral parking brake, and i think the mounting holes are significantly farther apart than 38mm.

AngryCorvair wrote: check Lincoln LS or S197 Mustang rear calipers. Both are designed for 20mm thick rotors. They are sliding calipers, so clearance to the wheel spokes should be better -- but clearance to the inside diameter of the rim may be worse. not sure about the axial offset or the spacing of the mounting holes. EDIT: these calipers have integral parking brake, and i think the mounting holes are significantly farther apart than 38mm.

Yeah thats a good idea but I'm trying to stick with euro cars so I can get ATE brand to have some uniformity.

As far as Volvo rotors.....I think 740s are 5x108 same as the 308. I wonder if I could run a non vented 740 rotor in the rear and bolt up a full 740 setup back there.

I was thinking 38 mm is the piston size (that's 1.5"). Do we know what the mounting hole distance is?

crankwalk wrote: As far as Volvo rotors.....I think 740s are 5x108 same as the 308. I wonder if I could run a non vented 740 rotor in the rear and bolt up a full 740 setup back there.

240s are 5x108 as well.

oldtin wrote: I was thinking 38 mm is the piston size (that's 1.5"). Do we know what the mounting hole distance is?

I measured 38mm between the two holes as well. I know that's confusing and sounds wrong but it's what I wrote down. I'll double check that later tonight. I don't care about piston size really. Edit! I wrote my measurements down wrong. The mounting holes are 3 inches apart! Doh

On the rotors, you might also look at Mercedes rotors. IIRC they are roughly the same design as the Volvo stuff.

Curmudgeon wrote: On the rotors, you might also look at Mercedes rotors. IIRC they are roughly the same design as the Volvo stuff.

But are any of those 5 x108? I think the benefit of the volvo looks to be bolt on from what I'm reading. I need the measure the hat depth and the center hub hole size.

Sorry, brain fart. Looks like Mercedes is 5x112 and 5x114.3.

To redeem myself:

http://www.roadkillcustoms.com/hot-rods-rat-rods/Wheel-Bolt-Pattern-Cross-Reference-Database.asp?LugCount=5&StudSpreadInch=&StudSpreadMM=108

Punch in the number of bolts and the pattern, it comes back with a list of what used it. Cool.