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jh36
jh36 GRM+ Memberand Dork
11/6/21 6:00 p.m.
jimgood said:

It was so fun seeing that beast finish out the weekend getting faster with each lap. I had a blast hanging out with you guys.

I can't thank you enough for your help...that was really fun!  And I don't think we would have gone out Sunday without your support. That was a blast!

jh36
jh36 GRM+ Memberand Dork
11/7/21 6:23 a.m.

Our first 2022 event is likely March 18 at VIR. Given hot spot business periods, holidays, business travel and such, I have 9 weekends to prep the car. 
Lead times being what they are, I'm starting with things I need to buy to acid availability anxiety. 
I am talking to Phil and Kim to get the right set of Hoosiers on deck. 
Tonight I am hoping to pull the fuel cell and get a cell, fuel level rig and filters on order. 
The day is dedicated to painting a portion of my house exterior and celebrating my son William's 19th birthday. 

jh36
jh36 GRM+ Memberand Dork
11/9/21 6:02 p.m.

OK, time for fuel cell 101.

I have never had to service one or even raced a car with a fuel cell.  The 2022 season looms over me even though it's 3 months out.  The bladder in this car is probably pretty old...I won't know for sure until I pull the bladder out.  With most "cans" i see from Fuel Safe and others, you simply unbolt the top and lift out the cell.  For better or worse, the ASA spec access is on the side, so I need to drop the whole shootin' match and then take the end off.  Here is a quick pic of the outside, with only the top straps removed.

Also, at Summit Point, when we pushed the car hard, a miss developed...even after changing out plugs and wires. (which looked awful)   Randomly, i switched from pump 1 to pump 2 and it cleared up instantly, then stuttered again...so my guess is there is something up with fuel supply, which could be the surge tank, the pumps themselves or the filters.   I'm looking forward to getting it all apart and seeing what is going on.

Also unlike most other cells I see, there are two openings...on for fuel in and the vent and a second one that does the fuel supply line and the pump(s).  I called Fuel Safe and Zach (customer service/sales) knew the cell I have.  He directed me to drop the box, remove the cell and give him the serial number, then he can give me the verdict.  I'm at least happy that right out the gates he didn't say I need to replace everything.

I am guessing that the small opening in the supply/pump opening is for a fuel level gauge.  #36 does not current have one, and I want one, so I'm hoping that is what this is.

More as it comes.....

jh36
jh36 GRM+ Memberand Dork
11/10/21 5:12 a.m.

Even in the cool autumn temps, this car is hot. I continue to want to avoid a cool suit if possible. I tried the naca duct with a hose at the rear "window", but used a crappy piece of Lowe's acrylic and it cracked in a few sessions. But while it technically worked, the flow was ok, but not great. 
so...roof vent. I'm going back to that idea. I could pop in a small naca covered by a small hood style scoop and cascade air over me directly. Seems like a direct way to bring in air without hose. 
Thoughts? 

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
11/10/21 5:32 a.m.

In reply to jh36 :

Similar to a debate ive been having with myself. 

I hadn't thought about a roof vent. A rally style one should work, but I'd be concerned about aero. 

I thought about using a four or six inch aluminum dryer duct to a bellmouth scoop in a headlight opening. To the firewall, then on the interior side stepped down to a couple of smaller vents directed at the driver. Ram air for the meat sack essentially. Its similar to the vent system on a c1 Corvette, but im not sure about fire safety. 

I also thought about a cheap underdash ac unit... 

HalfFast
HalfFast New Reader
11/10/21 8:38 a.m.

Based on what I can find, that setup won't accept a fuel sender, but all is not lost.  you should be able to get a new top plate that will be fuel sender friendly. Sadly they aren't cheap.  This is one example https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=FS+ML6X10RF  The round silver cover is where the sender goes.  The sender is about another $100.  This is the 8" long model, they come in different lengths https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=10319 then add gauge.  

I just fill mine each session :)

 

Asphalt_Gundam
Asphalt_Gundam Reader
11/10/21 8:41 a.m.

In reply to jh36 :

put any thought to a wing window setup?

They were fantastic on the 76 F100 I had. Lots of airflow right into your lap. Could build something that mounts to the cage tubes. Small enough it doesn't affect ingress/egress and adjustable in/out for more/less air supply.

HalfFast
HalfFast New Reader
11/10/21 10:08 a.m.

I shared this with Jack already, but thought the rest of the class might be interested.  I did a simple hose out the window, and it produces hurricane levels of air :) 

 

jh36
jh36 GRM+ Memberand Dork
11/10/21 11:30 a.m.

In reply to HalfFast :

"Based on what I can find, that setup won't accept a fuel sender,"

I may figure this out later tonight if/when I pull it apart, but what do you think the round thing with the small hole is (located in the middle of the fuel pump section, lower right)?

jh36
jh36 GRM+ Memberand Dork
11/10/21 11:36 a.m.

In reply to HalfFast :

"I just fill mine each session"

I can take that route I guess....a gauge is just something that I've grown used to and fond of.  And I have already screwed up and forgotten fuel once.  But, if it turns into a big $ thing, I will just develop better habits.

jh36
jh36 GRM+ Memberand Dork
11/10/21 11:37 a.m.

In reply to Asphalt_Gundam :

That could be cool...it would turn my '68 into more of a '67!

jh36
jh36 GRM+ Memberand Dork
11/10/21 11:39 a.m.

In reply to HalfFast :

But you have 7,500HP to overcome any obstacles.  It is very practical though.

I have never been much of a slave to fashion, but I sort of see a roof duct at this point.  Custom fabricated with a NACA under.  I see it.

HalfFast
HalfFast New Reader
11/10/21 11:40 a.m.

In reply to jh36 :

If you mean this circled item, it appears to be too small, and doesn't have enough bolts for the fuel safe senders I can find 

 

On Edit.  This is the backside of that plate.  It doesn't go far, the fuel pumps are under it 

v8fuelcellregulator.jpg

jh36
jh36 GRM+ Memberand Dork
11/10/21 5:02 p.m.

Welp, I got a message from Fuel Safe.  This must have been a pretty specific cell for ASA.  They sent me a mechanical drawing to confirm the unit (and they were correct) and the bladder alone is quoted at $1800!  If i need wiring or pumps, it will be an additional $600. 

My son is watching Scooby Doo, so I say "ZOINKS"!

I think any 15 gallon cell approximately the same size will work and should be hundreds of dollars less.  If I can repurpose the pumps, even less.  I'm going to still pull the cell and remove the bladder, get the exact serial number and confirm the pricing, but that is a little rich for my blood.

 

 

 

jh36
jh36 GRM+ Memberand Dork
11/10/21 5:04 p.m.

In reply to HalfFast :

That is really helpful.  I will post my info when I get it.  Thanks Bill.

jh36
jh36 GRM+ Memberand Dork
11/11/21 4:50 a.m.

Last night I dropped the cell and opened it up.  I have two in cell pumps set up with an a/b switch. If you recall, I was getting stuttering and going back and forth between pumps. Well, both fuel lines from the pumps to the fuel manifold have leaks. It may not be the only issue, but that was a problem. 

jh36
jh36 GRM+ Memberand Dork
11/11/21 4:52 a.m.

Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter)
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/11/21 5:09 a.m.

In reply to jh36 :

At least it's reassuring to find the likely culprit. Does that change your plans for a new fuel cell, or is it still the cheaper option?

jh36
jh36 GRM+ Memberand Dork
11/11/21 5:17 a.m.

In reply to Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) :

The bladder has to be refreshed to be race legal, and the ASA replacement bladder is $1800. Because, it is very special order item. It looks like I can buy all new cell, pumps and sender for under that, so im shopping for a full replacement. It looks like both Fuel Safe and ATL have good options for me. I will do a careful comparison this weekend and get an order in. I think I can reuse my pumps...and you are right, it's really nice to see a logical reason for the issue we experienced. 

Asphalt_Gundam
Asphalt_Gundam Reader
11/11/21 7:13 a.m.

I suggest taking a look at Radium also. I've been shopping around for a fuel cell while figuring out what next years plans are and keep coming back to looking at the Radium stuff. I think its the in-tank surge tank, options for multiple pumps and a fuel sender all with extremely clean wiring setup. FCST, Fuel Cell Surge Tank (radiumauto.com)

jh36
jh36 GRM+ Memberand Dork
11/12/21 1:07 p.m.
Asphalt_Gundam said:

I suggest taking a look at Radium also. I've been shopping around for a fuel cell while figuring out what next years plans are and keep coming back to looking at the Radium stuff. I think its the in-tank surge tank, options for multiple pumps and a fuel sender all with extremely clean wiring setup. FCST, Fuel Cell Surge Tank (radiumauto.com)

Thank you...I will check it out. I have dual  pumps and a returnless fuel system which I don't want to alter. I will be doing some weekend research to find the system most readily accommodates these features. I will check them out. 

jh36
jh36 GRM+ Memberand Dork
11/12/21 1:12 p.m.

The original cell does not have a surge tank, but the foam was cut precisely out for the pumps. The pumps have filtered feet that sit on the bottom of the cell. The supply fuel hose was long enough to press the feet on the floor of the cell. I'm thinking that will work for me...as long as i don't try to race on vapors. 

jh36
jh36 GRM+ Memberand Dork
11/14/21 11:22 p.m.

Here is the fuel pump, power supply and a-b manifold. 

jh36
jh36 GRM+ Memberand Dork
11/14/21 11:23 p.m.

jh36
jh36 GRM+ Memberand Dork
11/14/21 11:30 p.m.

Since I don't have a return line, I am wondering if I can use the new fuel cell return port for the manifold and drill 4 mounting bolt holes.  
I am still not positive what purpose of the " plug" in the middle of the panel is, but I am thinking it is a vent for the manifold. If anyone can ID or confirm that, I would appreciate it. 

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