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AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter)
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/22/21 4:05 p.m.

Go to junkyard and get in-tank pump assembly from crashed LS-equipped vehicle, then adapt that to the removable top plate of your fuel cell. Hashtag winning.

GM > MG
GM > MG New Reader
9/22/21 4:58 p.m.

How about:

Move mufflers to rear and just run pipes past the sides of the Fuel Cell. Then put pump next to bottom of cell.

Check out this very artistic sketch...

LOL

 

 

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter)
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/22/21 8:02 p.m.
obsolete
obsolete GRM+ Memberand Reader
9/23/21 9:01 a.m.

In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :

Don't use that one, it mounts on the side of the tank, not the top.

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) UltimaDork
9/23/21 9:38 a.m.

Let's see if I can respond to the various suggestions.  I don't think there's enough room between the rear of the cell enclosure and the rear valance to put the mufflers there and I know I'm short of enough exhaust tubing bends to do it. The fuel cell is a poly ATL unit and I think I could put a bulk head fitting and gaskets in the side with some chance of success. I need to research that option a bit first. I do have four of those Walbro pumps so I could try one in a lift situation to see if it will work long enough. They were only $10 each, so I can sacrifice one and they're cheaper than the junk yard ones by half, so I would like to stay with them. There may be room for a pump along either side or the right front area of the cell depending on what a comfortable distance between fuel lines and exhaust pipes is.

I wonder what the fundamental difference is between the Walbro in-line pumps and their in-tank ones? Would I die if I put the in-line pump inside the fuel cell? That I'll have to do some reading up on.

SkinnyG (Forum Supporter)
SkinnyG (Forum Supporter) UberDork
9/23/21 9:42 a.m.

On my Locost I ran a bulkhead fitting in the bottom of a poly tank, and I wish I hadn't, it has the potential to develop leaks. All OEM tanks draw up through the top. I currently run a cheap Facet pump (it's eaten four of them so far) feeding a surge tank, which feeds an external high pressure pump.

On the Firefly I built my own aluminum tank around how I was going to run the exhaust, and ran single exhaust just because of space. Don't suppose you want side-exit through the rocker panel or through the interior and out the quarter panel?

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) UltimaDork
9/23/21 10:16 a.m.

In reply to SkinnyG (Forum Supporter) :

I could go the Challenge with open side exhausts, but using the car afterwards in urban autocross settings will require mufflers. I'm also going to measure the space between the rear firewall and the axle to see if I can fit the mufflers in there (see Gimp's Camaro build thread), although I had thought of putting the battery in the passenger side of that same space. I think the car came with a Facet pump, so I'll have to find that and see if it can supply enough fuel to a surge tank. That all adds to the budget though. Adapting a junkyard LS fuel pump to the cell's cover may yet be the cheapest solution.

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) UltimaDork
9/23/21 10:26 a.m.

I appreciate all the feedback if for no other reason than it gets me thinking on a different track......Gimp's Camaro has both mufflers mounted behind the driver's seat and exiting through the side of the car. My 4-link bars are right there, but I might have the space to mount both mufflers there and then run both exhaust pipes down the left side of the cell, leaving the space on the right side free and well away from a hot exhaust. I still need a fuel pump solution though.

SkinnyG (Forum Supporter)
SkinnyG (Forum Supporter) UberDork
9/23/21 11:50 a.m.

What if the exhaust went up over the axle and up into the trunk, exiting between the tailights?  That could be cool.  And hot. You'd have room for mufflers in the trunk....

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter)
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/23/21 11:55 a.m.

In reply to obsolete :

OK, good call, i didn't realize that.  C4 is a top-load and includes filler . 

to the OP i say:  i have one at home and can get dimensions tonight if it would be helpful.

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) UltimaDork
9/23/21 12:25 p.m.

In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :

Dimensions and a photo would be helpful...thanks.

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter)
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/23/21 12:27 p.m.

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :

might be 10PM tonight but i'll get that info for you.

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) UltimaDork
9/23/21 12:27 p.m.
SkinnyG (Forum Supporter) said:

What if the exhaust went up over the axle and up into the trunk, exiting between the tailights?  That could be cool.  And hot. You'd have room for mufflers in the trunk....

I'll have to do some pondering and measuring on that one. There's a chassis cross tube and a sway bar above the top plane of the fuel cell that may be in the way. You can see the cross member through the tail light opening and the sway bar just above the trunk opening lip. Maybe a couple of Bozozuku pipes out through the deck lid will be in order....laugh

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) UltimaDork
9/23/21 12:31 p.m.

Had I thought through all these little details I could have mounted the cell 2 inches rearward and there would be ample room between the tank and the panhard bar. There's really nothing to prevent me from cutting and chopping at this point, aside from I'm getting tired of doing so many things twice on this car.

Shavarsh
Shavarsh Reader
9/23/21 1:41 p.m.

What constitutes " bellow the tank"? I would be concentrating on that. If the fuel is going to come out of the top of the tank either way, there will be some "pulling action". The easy button the way I see it, and I have been wrong plenty of times before, is to put some fluid volume above the pump. This can be achieved with a large section of fuel line, a large fuel filter located slightly higher than the pump, etc. You could even use your current mounting scheme to mount a high volume filter (or empty filter housing) on stilts right before the pump.

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) UltimaDork
9/23/21 2:13 p.m.

Ooooh! Look at this.......you can drop a Walbro in-line pump into a tank...just need the filter sock/pickup thingy.....

vv

stafford1500
stafford1500 GRM+ Memberand Dork
9/23/21 2:52 p.m.

You dont NEED a filter on teh pump inlet, but you do WANT one...

Kendall_Jones
Kendall_Jones Dork
9/23/21 3:06 p.m.

I found some blem / used holley hydramat on ebay on the past.  Havent checked lately though - I was able to pick up an X shaped one earlier this year.  Might work as a sock...

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) UltimaDork
9/23/21 5:08 p.m.

In reply to Kendall_Jones :

I just threw "Holley HydraMat" on Ebay....the cheap ones were $150  !!

Stampie
Stampie GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/23/21 5:43 p.m.

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :

There's "cheap" and then there's "Challenge cheap".

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter)
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/23/21 9:02 p.m.

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :

Sorry, I got home late and can't get the C4 fuel pump measurements tonight. I'll get them for you tomorrow.

wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L)
wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
9/24/21 5:44 a.m.
 

So. Much. Winning.

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) UltimaDork
9/24/21 6:54 a.m.

In reply to Shavarsh :

Sorry, I didn't respond to your question/suggestion. I'm not sure what "below the tank" means exactly, but I think if I take it literally and keep the pump center line lower than the floor of the tank it might maintain a siphon effect better and not lose prime. As you suggest , some sort of pot ahead of the pump might help with that.

GM > MG
GM > MG New Reader
9/24/21 5:42 p.m.

I cant remember were I got the idea, but I have always thought that an Electric Fuel Pump MUST be lower than the fuel cell.

MUST like it was a law, regulation, 11th commandment type thing and if you ignored it, explosions, prison, get re-married, etc...

Also, I thought the pump MUST be angled w/ the outlet sightly higher than the inlet.

Now I don't know if any of that was correct. So I'm watching this one closely to see how it turns out.

cool

TED_fiestaHP
TED_fiestaHP HalfDork
9/24/21 5:58 p.m.

  You do want it as low as is practical, and as close to the tank as is practical.

      Near the front of the car and above the tank is completely wrong.

         If possible mount it at or below bottom of tank, or at least close to bottom of tank.  A little above bottom of tank might be OK,  but make it as low as is practical.

 

  Done wrong, either it won't work or it could starve for gas long before the tank is low.  Or the pump won't last long...

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