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Shavarsh
Shavarsh Reader
9/24/21 6:40 p.m.

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :

No worries! I agree, below the tank itself will give it better head pressure and keep it "pushing" my suggestions are merely trying to brainstorm a way out of having to reconfigure. I'm a fan of the in tank idea. Interested to see what your solution is.

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter)
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/24/21 8:08 p.m.

Picture:

and dimensions (in inches):

Height is from lowest point of sock to underside of top plate. Width is width of top plate. Length is fore-aft dimension of top plate.

As installed, the rear of the plate is to the left in my photo above.

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) UltimaDork
9/24/21 8:21 p.m.

In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :

Pat, that's a stock unit from what car? Could it be easily shortened? It's about 4"  too long as is.

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter)
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/24/21 8:34 p.m.

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :

That's from a 94 Corvette. And I'm sure it can be shortened. I'm an idiot so I raised the roof on my boat gas tank instead of shortening the float arm and pickup tube.

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) UltimaDork
9/25/21 7:27 a.m.

At this point I'm leaning to installing the Walbro inside the tank. If I were to add a lower outlet to have a flooded inline location I'd have to open the tank and remove the foam any way and could have leaks. I expect the old foam in there is in pretty sad shape and will need to replaced, or maybe run without it. New foam will be a $70-100 expense. The cheapest solution would be to low mount the pump external to the tank and hope it can lift fuel and retain a prime. Then I wouldn't open the cell and hope the foam doesn't break down and clog the system. A $2K limit certainly makes you think through all the alternatives for the one that bites the least. If I were simply building an autocross car I'd just order all new stuff and get on with it. I already know I've got to buy steel braided lines to get to the engine and back, so the fuel system is starting to suck up budget.

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
9/25/21 7:28 a.m.

You can also pressurize the tank to reprrime the pump if it doesn't self prime or hold pressure. Just a hot of compressed air in the fill tube should do it. This is for low mout pump.

But I have done exactly what you are doing a bunch of times, and only rarely experience issues 

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) UltimaDork
9/25/21 7:31 a.m.

In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :

Explain "done exactly what you are doing a bunch of times", please. Have you had experience with plumbing in a Walbro pump, Michael?

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
9/25/21 7:41 a.m.

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :

Various brands of inline high pressure pumps. All either wlabro style, bosch, or e2000. None rated as a lifting pump. 

Generally, below tank by an inch or two. Fed out of the top of the tank. 

As long as the tank wasn't almost empty (like an inch or more of fuel in it) they kept their prime for the most part. Sometimes not, especially if unused for a while. Most would self reprime. Some needed a shot of air to reprime. 

Its not optimal. But it does function, usually. 

 

You can test with water or gas or something. Hook it up where you want to mountit. Run some test leads to power it. See if it will draw through with no assistance in that location. 

Just because the documentation says its it's not supposed to work that way don't mean it wont.

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) UltimaDork
9/25/21 7:46 a.m.

In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :

Thanks for the explanation.

 

TED_fiestaHP
TED_fiestaHP HalfDork
9/25/21 7:50 a.m.

  On my fiat X 1/9 the fuel comes out the top of the tank, and then goes down to the pump, that works.  I didn't have to prime the pump, although that might depend on the pump being used.  Might not be the best solution, but should work.  Works better after I eliminated the clogged in tank sock filter.

     Just don't want the pump to attempt to pull fluid up hill, the pump can push fluid but can't draw fluid very well.   Just the way pumps work in general, not just fuel pumps.

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) UltimaDork
9/27/21 3:32 p.m.

After a bunch of measuring this morning, I decided the best place for the mufflers is on either side of the fuel cell enclosure and the pump needs to be down low, right in front of the tank. Initially I'll plumb it up to the suction port on the top of the cell and cross my fingers that it will work without resorting to adding a lower outlet to the poly tank. I played around with an exact location and I think it could have worked at the chassis end of the Panhard bar, but to be 100% sure there'll be enough clearance throughout the suspension travel range, I started cutting........

I took out the whole cradle and enclosure for the cell and I'll weld in back in about 2 inches rearward, which will give me ample room for the pump and a filter. I'll dig out the filter cannister that came in the Corolla tomorrow so I'm sure it'll fit before I start welding, The cradle prepped and ready to go back in....

Made 3 of the 4 cuts with my old Ryobi reciprocating saw and then it jammed, so the 2" tube was cut out with a hack saw. That's time consuming and one of those things that causes me to ask myself why I do these things at my age......

Enclosure sitting on blocks awaiting welding. You can see the gap between the steel enclosure and the Panhard. I'll set the distance in the morning and start welding. I also removed the light plate gusset that reinforced the Panhard mount to make a space for an exhaust pipe, so I'll need to add something back, either a tube welded diagonally up the the round tube , or put another Heim jointed tube from the bolt up to a bracket on the driver's side chassis rail.

 

GM > MG
GM > MG New Reader
9/28/21 10:43 a.m.

I think that's a great solution. Keep all major components were you originally wanted them.

Some days just have to byte the bullet and start cutting.

 

"That's time consuming and one of those things that causes me to ask myself why I do these things at my age..."

I feel your pain - literally. Us OG's just gotta keep at it...

 

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) UltimaDork
9/29/21 2:37 p.m.

Two days of hacking around in the garage just to make room for the fuel pump....but, it's done just needs some paint tomorrow. The fuel cell now sits 2" further back than before, there's an added brace across the chassis to reinforce the Panhard mount,and you can just get a glimpse of the fuel pump bracket below the Panhard. The brace leaves me plenty of room for running the fuel system and both exhaust pipes.......

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) UltimaDork
10/4/21 1:23 p.m.

Started on the rear tin work to separate the driver's compartment from the the trunk area......

Got the main panel fitted and welded in place, but I still need to figure out how best to block off all the open area in the C-pillars. There won't be wheel tubs so I need to seal off the whole rear third of the body somehow, for safety reasons, as well as keeping  dust and moisture out of the driver's compartment. I can foresee lots of Cardboard Aided Design over the next few days trying to figure out all the small patches.

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) UltimaDork
10/5/21 9:17 a.m.

I've only entered the Challenge once before and I noticed how dark it gets on the drag strip right after you go through the traps. The rules require lighting anyway, so this morning I picked up some lights for $6 off FB Marketplace. I think I'll be able to see at the end of the strip now....

Hellas, just under 6.5" diameter, so I can mount them in the grille openings where the stock headlights would normally go.

nocones
nocones GRM+ Memberand UberDork
10/5/21 11:09 a.m.

Are you targeting this year?  Things are looking great keep it up.

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) UltimaDork
10/5/21 11:27 a.m.

In reply to nocones :

Absolutely no way for this year. I think next year is quite doable though.

ShawneeCreek
ShawneeCreek GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
10/5/21 12:03 p.m.
DeadSkunk (Warren) said:

Started on the rear tin work to separate the driver's compartment from the the trunk area......

Got the main panel fitted and welded in place, but I still need to figure out how best to block off all the open area in the C-pillars. There won't be wheel tubs so I need to seal off the whole rear third of the body somehow, for safety reasons, as well as keeping  dust and moisture out of the driver's compartment. I can foresee lots of Cardboard Aided Design over the next few days trying to figure out all the small patches.

Would aluminum duct tape work? It seals well, is lightweight, easy to install, and could probably be painted. It's just not structural.

 

Just thinking out loud.

- Sean

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) UltimaDork
10/5/21 1:01 p.m.

In reply to ShawneeCreek :

I've used it in the past to block smaller holes. In this cars you can pass your arm well up into the C-pillars so a I need to make block-off panels to fill most of the gap. If I do a good job of fitting then seam sealer ought to finish it, if not the aluminum tape will certainly bridge bigger gaps.

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) UltimaDork
10/12/21 10:39 a.m.

Continued sealing off the rear parcel shelf area with sheet metal and seam sealer, then I decided to clean the black "stickum" off the underside of the roof before I set to painting the interior. 15 minutes with a flap disc on an HF grinder and this happens......

Next....a shower, then I'll paint the car ceiling.

Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter)
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/12/21 6:28 p.m.

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :

You should have waited a couple weeks to do that. It would have been great seeing the kids faces as you handed out Halloween candy. 

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) UltimaDork
10/14/21 3:31 p.m.

I'm trying to make this car as presentable as possible, so to that end I worked on the lower rear quarter panels today. Like all the lower reaches of this shell , they were pretty crusty. It may seem like a fair bit of work for a Challenge car, but I want it decent and it's good practice before I tackle the rust on my MINI Cooper. I formed the pieces from some scrap and did the welding from the inside. It's easier to weld in this position and I'll be using filler on the outside anyway......

Stay tuned for a parts run on Saturday......this thing may end up with some fiberglass box flares !!!!!

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) UltimaDork
10/15/21 10:33 a.m.

Doing some light work today......making brackets for the Hella driving lamps to sit where the stock headlights would normally fit......

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) UltimaDork
10/16/21 11:25 a.m.

This morning I picked up a set of fender flares for a Porsche 914 for $50. Worth a gamble to see I can use or modify them to fit. I would have thought the sides of a 914 would be rather flat compared to the Corolla, but not so. These will need some modifications to work.

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) UltimaDork
10/16/21 11:55 a.m.

Multiple issues to deal with the flares. They actually aren't as wide as I need, but I won't know for sure until I put the shell back on the chassis next week. The other thing is 914 flares have the top of the wheel opening rather low on the tire. I may have to radius the openings to elevate them and then reform the lip. I can mount them at whatever height, but going higher loses the flare at the bottom. Here the flare is mounted low, then medium, then high to illustrate....

Slight changes in elevation, I know, but you can see the position of the flare compared to the vent hole at the base of the C-pillar, or look at the rocker panel area behind the door. I like the overall look, it will just take time to modify them to fit the way I envision them in my head. The fronts fit the fender contour closer, but extend the wheel opening outward even less than the rears. Next week I'll get the shell on the chassis and put both 10" wheels on one side then mount the fenders and flares. I may be able to mount the flares on sheet metal stanchions and see how wide a gap there is to bridge.​​​​​​

The wheel opening is going to have to be high enough to change the tires from autocross size to a slightly taller drag slick, and the suspension doesn't have a lot of droop when the car is jacked up. That fact may be the decider in whether or not I radius the openings.

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