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Shawnb
Shawnb Reader
1/14/21 8:54 p.m.

** This is rather length, I have nothing better to do at the moment :) **

 

Around 99/00 I was dragged to the DSM shootout, to watch a friend's cousin race his Eclipse. I didn't know anything about them, or really cars in general for that matter. At this point, I've been around DSM/EVOs for 20+ years. I Went through many Eclipse/Talon/Colt/Mirage/Summit when I was younger. At that time, in my teens my dream was to own an EVO which seemed impossible. Moved 10 hours away in my early 20s, and a few weeks later I was the proud owner of a 30k mile EVO 8. 

I ended up doing mild bolt ons, and used it as my daily driver. Selling off my comfortable BMW, because I didn't want to title it in my new state. Bad move, driving the EVO daily became hell. My career and business grew, and my love for the car faded. Realizing I could afford some checklist "exotics" I went that route for a few years.

 

Till I was hit with a random email. I made a WTB thread years back, and someone reached out with this. Rented a car the next day, and drove 10 hours to pick it up. Upon arrival the guy wouldn't pick up his phone for hours. He didn't think I was actually serious, and had second thoughts on letting it go. Eventually he reached out, and I had to talk him into selling me the car. 

Really cool car, but I ended up selling it. That was roughly 7+ years ago, when I was debating an R35 GTR or Ariel Atom. 

 

Since that EVO 4, I actually stayed away from 4g powered cars for years. Till 2 years ago, a clean low mileage Colt GT came up for sale I couldn't pass up. Then another one last year, it was also low mileage and one owner I believe. Got rid of both of them, as I didn't want to hack up clean stock cars. 

 

Every year, I go on a 3 month trek with my wife. The last two years, I've gone cross country for a month either before or after our trip via motorbike. Well, fast forward to our good buddy Rona. We took it very seriously early on, I can recall being the only two in the grocery store wearing masks and people constantly looking. Didn't leave the house unless it was for groceries, or to hike. But, I thought it would fizzle out quickly. So I continued on with my normal future plans and ordered a new Royal Enfield Interceptor 650. I had it painted within the first week or two of owning it. Had a set of Ohlins shocks made, and I believe was the first person to have Andreani forks here in the US. It was also fitted with an exhaust, Givi racks and cases, and windscreen. I stayed locked up for months, till eventually taking a trip to see my parents which is nearly 10 hours away. I felt comfortable at the time doing this, because I wasn't near a single soul for months, and was taking tests weekly just to keep on top of it. 

The trip went great, But upon returning home. I knew going cross country wasn't in the cards due to cases still growing, etc. So, I ended up looking around for various cars to buy. Solely because I had nothing better to do. Autozam AZ-1 was first on my list. There is a dealer only a few hours away, who had a few. They all had various little issues, and the place wanted top dollar. Wouldn't budge a cent. Off to seeking the next best Kei car, The Suzuki Cappuccino. Found an importer in Atlanta that had one, so left Charlotte the next day to go and check it out. It had a built motor, larger turbo, built rear end, with a clutch that was on and off. I hated it. After chatting with the owner, and displaying my love for early Mitsubishi's, he informed me that they had a Galant VR4 at another location an hour away. Jumped in the guy's Delica, and went to check it out. Ended up getting to take a rip in a track prepped Mazda hatchback, along with the GVR4. For that day, it felt almost as if things were normal once again. The GVR4 wasn't perfect, but I wanted it. This particular GVR4, is a very rare EVO spec. Which came with a different bumper, vented hood, AMG seats, Big 16g turbo, 510cc injectors, larger intercooler and piping, different fuel pump and MAF, dual runner intake manifold which is controlled by the ECU. Different transmission, which has a shorter gearset, and a 4 bolt rear end with 4WS. 

This was on the drive home of picking it up, a few weeks after going down to check it out. I was told the AC worked, and found out quickly in 90+ degree Atlanta traffic that it didn't! But, it made it home without any real issues. The next day, I had the AC converted over, replaced all the relays and had ice cold air. Then started to order parts, to fix all of it's little issues. The Tein coilovers from the 90s, which are no longer made for these cars. Decided to puke all of their oil within the first week of ownership. 

The only off the shelf coilovers available, are the typical Taiwanese offerings. BC,Feal,Ksport. I live in NC, and Bilstein and Ohlins are both here. Tried getting both of them, to make a set of custom coilovers. No dice. Found a company that can revalve, and stuff bilstein guts into BC Racing coils. So, I went that route. Along with JNZ stainless line, Hawk HPS pads, and new rotors all around. 

I noticed a stud, missing from the exhaust manifold. No big deal right? Well, studs broke in the turbine housing, and the exhaust manifold was pretty gross itself. 

While the manifold and turbo were off the car, I decided to just upgrade everything with fresh parts. The EVO spec comes stock with a Big 16g turbo, I opted for the EVO III 16g turbo. Probably the only person to spend $800 in this day and age, on a stock turbo.. 

Upgraded the manifold, with an FP race unit and a manifold blanket, as you cannot attatch the stock heat shield to it.

New 3in stainless downpipe to replace the Fujitsubo unit that was on the car, along with a stainless o2 housing. 

The transfer case was leaking, so it was pulled for fresh seals.

The transmission had a leaky seal. Both were replaced. 

The driveshaft yoke, and u joint were in poor shape. Mitsubishi sold the yoke and u joint together basically since new. Not an item you would ever think would NLA. Well, trying to order one I found out they were being discontinued. I bought as many as I could. 

 

 

All of this work, and some other small jobs were completed within a month or so of purchasing the car. I wanted the mechanicals to be in 100% working order ASAP. I chased a highway vibration issue for over a month. Multiple alignments from different shops, wheel balances, replacing the new tires that were on the car with another new set.... Nothing completely fixed the issue! Made a post online, and started to do what others suggested. $5.99 fixed the problem. Never heard of hub centric rings till this point!

 

Finally I could enjoy the car. The Blue Ridge Parkway, and other wonderful roads are a short drive away. 

 

Picked up a set of Speedlines from 95., that needed some work.

 

 

 

All was great, till it wasn't. Returning from a hike almost two months ago, I came around a blind corner and met a boulder in the road. It smacked the oil filter, and that was all she wrote. Bearing damage. Mint 70k mile motor, taken out just like that. Not even driving quickly, or anything. Simply just heading home! 

 

At this point, I didn't know which direction to go. This was purchased only as a fun car, to enjoy in the mountains. With no goals of power, etc. With it needing an engine, I decided to take a different approach, and chase a dream I've always wanted to tackle. Entering a Hill Climb. NC has an event, and it looks like Kentucky will also be getting one this season. I have ZERO on track experience with 4 wheels. I will be attending as many autocross, and track days as possible this season. 

Found a 50k mile JDM 6 bolt engine, that I paid way too much for (Everything is pricey currently) and swapped it in very recently. It's currently running rich, most likely from a botched throttle body seal replacement. So it's parked, and getting converted over for race duty. Hopefully this motor holds, while I build one.

Ripped the interior out.

AMG seats, kinda cool!

 

I love 80/90s rally, and everything Pikes Peak related when it comes to motorsports. The car is off to paint, in two weeks for a Group A livery. Once paint is completed, off to have a cage fabricated. 

 

I have a pile of new parts, just waiting to be installed and is growing daily! The 4WS will be getting deleted. Custom arms in the rear, custom mustache bar, EVO III Aluminum radiator, Whiteline rear sway bar, toe link eliminators, all new bushings, along with every suspension piece. Random seals, etc.  Oh yeah, that lovely boulder hit the steering rack lines. With the car being RHD, you cannot just order a new one from a local parts store. The RHD rack is actually NLA, so I had to order a used one from Malaysia. They charged me $2.10 to ship it, pretty sure that was supposed to be $210. About the only silver lining. Like an idiot, when just replacing the motor I didn't do the water pump or timing belt. I had what I thought were the correct ones kicking around in storage, but it was for another vehicle. I now have the correct set, which will be getting installed when it's ripped apart for all of this. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

MaxC
MaxC New Reader
1/14/21 9:42 p.m.

Awesome! Can't believe you're making it in to a racecar. Fully support this. I hear yah, 80's and 90's tuner stuff is getting expensive and rare. Can't wait to see how it turns out! 

yupididit
yupididit GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
1/14/21 10:03 p.m.

I do miss my Galant VR4. Its been 10 years since it got taken away by an hurricane crying

Colin Wood
Colin Wood Associate Editor
1/15/21 8:16 a.m.

Very cool. I'm excited to see where this ends up.

Also, kudos on the Royal Enfield. I have yet to ride a motorcycle, but if I start, I'd be keen on getting a Royal Enfield.

Shawnb
Shawnb Reader
1/15/21 11:18 a.m.
Colin Wood said:

Very cool. I'm excited to see where this ends up.

Also, kudos on the Royal Enfield. I have yet to ride a motorcycle, but if I start, I'd be keen on getting a Royal Enfield.


They are great. Excellent value for such little money. Cannot say enough good things. 

engiekev
engiekev HalfDork
1/15/21 11:33 a.m.

Epic!! Very cool backstory, I'm so excited to see you'll have the rally livery on it.

And it looks like it had some rad Recaro seats in it too?

What are you plans for engine management? With a Evo3 16G, it will likely be fine with ECMLink, though other ECUs offer some useful features.  Link ECU offers a "plug in" ECU, but it requires some modification to use the stock knock sensor, and it doesn't have as many features as the regular Link ECUs.

For some hillclimb Mitsu inspiration, look no further than Pleasure Evo (yes thats the name) under Alex Grabau who runs at east coast hill climbs.  He has some of the most trick mitsu GroupA parts ever made, including magnesium case ralliart transmission.

https://jalopnik.com/this-guy-faced-down-rally-giants-with-just-a-23-year-ol-1821477765  

 

TimM
TimM New Reader
1/15/21 11:39 a.m.

Another JDM build - excellent!  I remember the US versions...quite rare to see even one of those.  Great story...

Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter)
Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/15/21 12:00 p.m.

Local? Come to zmax for ccr-scca autocross with me and stu!

Shawnb
Shawnb Reader
1/15/21 12:15 p.m.
engiekev said:

Epic!! Very cool backstory, I'm so excited to see you'll have the rally livery on it.

And it looks like it had some rad Recaro seats in it too?

What are you plans for engine management? With a Evo3 16G, it will likely be fine with ECMLink, though other ECUs offer some useful features.  Link ECU offers a "plug in" ECU, but it requires some modification to use the stock knock sensor, and it doesn't have as many features as the regular Link ECUs.

For some hillclimb Mitsu inspiration, look no further than Pleasure Evo (yes thats the name) under Alex Grabau who runs at east coast hill climbs.  He has some of the most trick mitsu GroupA parts ever made, including magnesium case ralliart transmission.

https://jalopnik.com/this-guy-faced-down-rally-giants-with-just-a-23-year-ol-1821477765  

 

 

Yes, it had some fairly rare Recaro seats. Trying to sell them at the moment.  Stock, it is tuned for a 16g, larger injectors, FMIC, and has the electronic controlled dual runner intake manifold. I've used ECMLINK in the past, and have no issues with it. I've seen some posts from others, saying they fought cyclone activation issues, and then some people say they have never had an issue. I wouldn't even mind using an AFC, which is pure junk and stone age tech. But my car really isn't far from stock, and I don't plan on it making past 325WHP MAX. Just afraid to chase cyclone activation issues. 

 

Appreciate the suggestion. I've been well aware of that car, for a number of years. Pretty sure I tried to trade him a Lotus Elise, many many years ago when he was trying to sell. I follow his Instagram. Love that car, and seriously want that transmission!

Shawnb
Shawnb Reader
1/15/21 12:17 p.m.
Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter) said:

Local? Come to zmax for ccr-scca autocross with me and stu!

I'm the person that asked about paintwork, and you suggested your buddy. Bringing it to him in a week and a half.

In the Charlotte area, and plan to attend the CCR events at Zmax!

engiekev
engiekev HalfDork
1/15/21 12:41 p.m.
Shawnb said:
engiekev said:

Epic!! Very cool backstory, I'm so excited to see you'll have the rally livery on it.

And it looks like it had some rad Recaro seats in it too?

What are you plans for engine management? With a Evo3 16G, it will likely be fine with ECMLink, though other ECUs offer some useful features.  Link ECU offers a "plug in" ECU, but it requires some modification to use the stock knock sensor, and it doesn't have as many features as the regular Link ECUs.

For some hillclimb Mitsu inspiration, look no further than Pleasure Evo (yes thats the name) under Alex Grabau who runs at east coast hill climbs.  He has some of the most trick mitsu GroupA parts ever made, including magnesium case ralliart transmission.

https://jalopnik.com/this-guy-faced-down-rally-giants-with-just-a-23-year-ol-1821477765  

 

 

Yes, it had some fairly rare Recaro seats. Trying to sell them at the moment.  Stock, it is tuned for a 16g, larger injectors, FMIC, and has the electronic controlled dual runner intake manifold. I've used ECMLINK in the past, and have no issues with it. I've seen some posts from others, saying they fought cyclone activation issues, and then some people say they have never had an issue. I wouldn't even mind using an AFC, which is pure junk and stone age tech. But my car really isn't far from stock, and I don't plan on it making past 325WHP MAX. Just afraid to chase cyclone activation issues. 

 

Appreciate the suggestion. I've been well aware of that car, for a number of years. Pretty sure I tried to trade him a Lotus Elise, many many years ago when he was trying to sell. I follow his Instagram. Love that car, and seriously want that transmission!

Ah yes the cyclone activation is not easily solved with ECMLink.  There are various outputs you can use like the nitrous solenoid activation that in theory should work, but it sounds like in practice there are problems.  If you're building an engine and don't mind losing the cyclone complication, then a 2G head and evo 3 intake manifold might be better suited for your build.  The 2G head flows just as well, and increases port velocity, and has a steeper more direct inlet to the chamber.  The head design is very similar to the Evo 8/9 head design, and many make over 1000hp with those heads and some mild porting, so the "big" 1G ports are certainly not needed for power.  There isn't a lot of good data out there on comparisons between 1G Cyclone and 2G head, as far as transient response and boost threshold, so its hard to say what is better empirically.

Shawnb
Shawnb Reader
1/15/21 12:51 p.m.
engiekev said:
Shawnb said:
engiekev said:

Epic!! Very cool backstory, I'm so excited to see you'll have the rally livery on it.

And it looks like it had some rad Recaro seats in it too?

What are you plans for engine management? With a Evo3 16G, it will likely be fine with ECMLink, though other ECUs offer some useful features.  Link ECU offers a "plug in" ECU, but it requires some modification to use the stock knock sensor, and it doesn't have as many features as the regular Link ECUs.

For some hillclimb Mitsu inspiration, look no further than Pleasure Evo (yes thats the name) under Alex Grabau who runs at east coast hill climbs.  He has some of the most trick mitsu GroupA parts ever made, including magnesium case ralliart transmission.

https://jalopnik.com/this-guy-faced-down-rally-giants-with-just-a-23-year-ol-1821477765  

 

 

Yes, it had some fairly rare Recaro seats. Trying to sell them at the moment.  Stock, it is tuned for a 16g, larger injectors, FMIC, and has the electronic controlled dual runner intake manifold. I've used ECMLINK in the past, and have no issues with it. I've seen some posts from others, saying they fought cyclone activation issues, and then some people say they have never had an issue. I wouldn't even mind using an AFC, which is pure junk and stone age tech. But my car really isn't far from stock, and I don't plan on it making past 325WHP MAX. Just afraid to chase cyclone activation issues. 

 

Appreciate the suggestion. I've been well aware of that car, for a number of years. Pretty sure I tried to trade him a Lotus Elise, many many years ago when he was trying to sell. I follow his Instagram. Love that car, and seriously want that transmission!

Ah yes the cyclone activation is not easily solved with ECMLink.  There are various outputs you can use like the nitrous solenoid activation that in theory should work, but it sounds like in practice there are problems.  If you're building an engine and don't mind losing the cyclone complication, then a 2G head and evo 3 intake manifold might be better suited for your build.  The 2G head flows just as well, and increases port velocity, and has a steeper more direct inlet to the chamber.  The head design is very similar to the Evo 8/9 head design, and many make over 1000hp with those heads and some mild porting, so the "big" 1G ports are certainly not needed for power.  There isn't a lot of good data out there on comparisons between 1G Cyclone and 2G head, as far as transient response and boost threshold, so its hard to say what is better empirically.

Yes, I'm going to be building a motor slowly. Not 100% sure which direction I want to go on that front. 

 

AS of now, it has another stock JDM 6 bolt in it. I really hope it last's the whole season. Going to go over boost leaks, next week as it's running rich. I love the response with the cyclone down low, which is why I don't want to ditch it just yet. Haven't touched an AFC in 10+ years, so I will need to find someone to assist with that. First to admit it's junk, but they worked for many years when setup right. Given my basic setup, and the ECU is already dialed in for a 16g. Adding a few more pounds, and larger injectors isn't the end of the world with an AFC. 

 

The 2g head also seems to keep head gaskets together better. Again, it's been awhile so I cannot recall why I've always heard that. 

 

Side note: Are you the person doing my fog light covers? Ha ha 

Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter)
Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/15/21 12:52 p.m.

In reply to Shawnb :

Awesome! And its its nothing personal.  I have a hard time remembering by brother's kids names....

Looking forward to meeting you in real life.  And running with you. If you wind up without a ride one event, we can always hot lap the miata!

Shawnb
Shawnb Reader
1/15/21 12:56 p.m.
Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Shawnb :

Awesome! And its its nothing personal.  I have a hard time remembering by brother's kids names....

Looking forward to meeting you in real life.  And running with you. If you wind up without a ride one event, we can always hot lap the miata!

No worries. I'm pretty much the same way. I need to meet someone multi times, before I even remotely remember them. Not getting any better with age either sadly. 

 

Appreciate it! Likewise. Same deal with my car, feel free to thrash it. Would also help getting feedback on helping dial in the suspension. I have experience with motorbikes, but not 4 wheels when it comes to a properly setup suspension. 

engiekev
engiekev HalfDork
1/15/21 1:11 p.m.

Haha yes I am doing your covers! Small world. They're in progress!

Safc should work just fine. Sometimes keeping it simple is better with DSMs, then it won't snowball into a huge unfinished project. It's very tempting to go all out when there's so many options. With a lightweight chassis an Evo 3 16g is more than enough!

If you need help with the safc I have a friend who used to own a shop tuning DSMs and this was the go to combo, safc and evo3. We're working on restoring our DSMs to glory, but keeping it simple. One of the other projects is a Evo 8/9 bilstein coilover adapt kit, they're really good dampers.

 

Shawnb
Shawnb Reader
1/15/21 1:33 p.m.
engiekev said:

Haha yes I am doing your covers! Small world. They're in progress!

Safc should work just fine. Sometimes keeping it simple is better with DSMs, then it won't snowball into a huge unfinished project. It's very tempting to go all out when there's so many options. With a lightweight chassis an Evo 3 16g is more than enough!

If you need help with the safc I have a friend who used to own a shop tuning DSMs and this was the go to combo, safc and evo3. We're working on restoring our DSMs to glory, but keeping it simple. One of the other projects is a Evo 8/9 bilstein coilover adapt kit, they're really good dampers.

 

Indeed. Scope creep easily comes into play with these cars. 

 

Appreciate the offer, might have to take you up on that at some point. If he ever finds his way to NC, LMK :)

 

Solid idea. I should have just went that route, with my coilover setup!

engiekev
engiekev HalfDork
1/15/21 2:04 p.m.
Shawnb said:
engiekev said:

Haha yes I am doing your covers! Small world. They're in progress!

Safc should work just fine. Sometimes keeping it simple is better with DSMs, then it won't snowball into a huge unfinished project. It's very tempting to go all out when there's so many options. With a lightweight chassis an Evo 3 16g is more than enough!

If you need help with the safc I have a friend who used to own a shop tuning DSMs and this was the go to combo, safc and evo3. We're working on restoring our DSMs to glory, but keeping it simple. One of the other projects is a Evo 8/9 bilstein coilover adapt kit, they're really good dampers.

 

Indeed. Scope creep easily comes into play with these cars. 

 

Appreciate the offer, might have to take you up on that at some point. If he ever finds his way to NC, LMK :)

 

Solid idea. I should have just went that route, with my coilover setup!

We're getting ideas to make the kits for sale, we'll reach out when we're ready. Prototyping parts soon.  They will work with OEM or aftermarket Bilstein struts, with the factory Evo or DSM top hats and use 2.5" springs.  No plans for camber adjustment top hat yet, but that could be added easily.  The kit will come with adapter washers for the strut to knuckle mount that add a slight amount of negative camber, and eccentric bolts could still be used with those. The rear adapter will be a bolt-in piece, no welding on the strut. Idea is to have a super robust coilover with decent bilstein dampers, and all the wear parts can be bought at any autozone or local auto parts store. 

Shawnb
Shawnb Reader
1/15/21 5:04 p.m.

In reply to engiekev :

Those should sell well in the GVR4 community!

Shawnb
Shawnb Reader
1/31/21 4:10 p.m.

Quick update:

 

The car needs to painted, along with a cage. Both are well over an hour away, and I don't have a trailer at the moment. So the car needs to be able to drive, and run decent. 
 

Took it to a localish shop, whichmqinky soecializes in EVOs. They redid the throttle body seals which were not done properly last time, along with fixing other little boost leaks. Couldn't cure them all, as the BOV was still leaking, and crushing didn't fix it. 
 

 

It made 260hp on 16psi, only revving out to 5800rpm, as the fuel pump wasn't able to keep up. With the boost leaks fixed, better fuel pump and more boost it should crack 300whp which is plenty for my goals. I felt pretty bad having the tuner use an AFC, and really appreciated him working with me. I couldn't imagine many shops wouldn't even consider touching this hot garbage. 
 

https://youtu.be/BNejZZY8bxI

 

 

Still waiting on my seat bracket to show up. It had to be custom made. It should show up tomorrow, which means off to paint finally!

engiekev
engiekev HalfDork
2/1/21 11:55 a.m.

Sounds very healthy!  In good company with the Evo 9 wagon, so jealous of that.

Look into a Evo9 BOV, they are metal, but need to be adapted to the DSM flange, or a Forge sells a BOV that fits the factory flange:

https://www.maperformance.com/products/forge-blow-off-valve-dsm

It's not worth messing with the DSM BOV to get it to work propely, time better spent on other areas of the car.

SpeedAddict502
SpeedAddict502 New Reader
2/1/21 12:15 p.m.

Whats the name of the shop you took it to in the video?

Scotty Con Queso
Scotty Con Queso SuperDork
2/1/21 3:25 p.m.

I've loved many a DSM and GVR4. Sadly, they never loved me back and the saga always ended in heartache and blown engines and bad alternators and bad transmissions and bad turbos. 

Shawnb
Shawnb Reader
2/1/21 8:13 p.m.
engiekev said:

Sounds very healthy!  In good company with the Evo 9 wagon, so jealous of that.

Look into a Evo9 BOV, they are metal, but need to be adapted to the DSM flange, or a Forge sells a BOV that fits the factory flange:

https://www.maperformance.com/products/forge-blow-off-valve-dsm

It's not worth messing with the DSM BOV to get it to work propely, time better spent on other areas of the car.


 

Love the EVO 9 wagon! 
 

If I can find one of those Forge units used, I'll snag it. No one stocks it new. Although I had a similar one years ago, that leaked since new... 

 

 

 

 

My seat bracket came today, and it didn't exactly line up. I had to bend each corner a good amount. Seat wouldn't line bottom mounting it, or side rails. Ran out of time, and drove it to over an hour to the painters place with two bolts holding it. Sketchy. 
 

Mid way to the painters, I noticed light smoke coming from under the hood. Pulled over, and instantly saw the culprit. One of the coolant lines from the throttle body exploded. Luckily, there was a Napa 5 minutes away, and my GF was following. Couldn't get one side of the hose off, no matter how hard I pulled. Really bad spot, with no real tools. Ripped the top portion where it exploded, and there was barely enough length to fit. Watched the coolant gauge like a hawk for the remainder of the trip. 
 

 

Long day! Can't wait to see how this livery turns out haha

 

Black_ops_miata
Black_ops_miata
2/1/21 8:43 p.m.

Very cool build and write up!  If you need any help/advice/mentorship getting to your first Hillclimb, let me know. Either I or a friend would be happy to help. 

Shawnb
Shawnb Reader
2/2/21 7:39 a.m.
SpeedAddict502 said:

Whats the name of the shop you took it to in the video?


 

Dyno time speed works. Just to clarify again, an AFC is not something he would normally touch. Haha. 

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