1 ... 23 24 25 26 27 ... 29
mke
mke Dork
4/8/21 5:35 p.m.

I'll add that since you've already drilled it so you know from that if its iron which makes gray crumbs or steel which makes chips.....you really can't confuse the 2, they cut completely different.  As for work hardening, you fixed that when you welded it, its annealed now  :)

nocones
nocones GRM+ Memberand UberDork
4/10/21 10:52 a.m.

Got the upper arms finished and fully welded (+15"x2 1" tube, $3.37, +2.5 hrs) .  Couldn't resist putting wheels on and the fenders where like right there under the table....  

Since everything was mocked up I took a brief look at the trunk to body transition.  It looks like it will be fairly clean to just extend the trunk forward.  I will have to shrink the vent somewhat but I think it will look fine.  

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/10/21 12:47 p.m.

I hate trying to use bed frame so much. Last time I tried I told myself I wouldn't even do it for another challenge car. 

I'll probably try again after I forget how much it sucked.

nocones
nocones GRM+ Memberand UberDork
4/11/21 12:19 p.m.

I had a bit of rough go last night.   This is not really a report on progress on the car but more of a story of the journey of building a car like this.    

I started to work on the Toe Control mounts.  I was planning to run a bolt in a sleeve and then have two tabs that capture a 1/2 rod end.  After I got everything mocked up to measure for the rod end bolt I found out that the rod end needs to be about 1/2" inboard of the centerline of the bolt.  That means that the rod end would overlap with the bolt.  That's, not good.  

Ok fine, try again.  So I made a few sleeves similar to the chassis bungs and will run wider plates with short spacers to hold the rod end.  There is clearance from the underside with the rod end removed to tighten the bolt to the steering arm.  So I cut some plates and clamped everything up to validate that I had the location correct for 0 bumpsteer. 

So I lowered the suspension all the way, clamped a bar to the hub and made sure it was parallel to the vehicle centerline (No toe).   To save time once I was sure I had no toe I measured from the back of the bar to 1 spot on the chassis (This becomes important soon and you may already know where this is going).  So I start cycling the suspension up and down and I get ~5/8" of toe on my 2' bar clamped to the hub.  That's.. Not great so I try a gain.  I Re-measure the LBJ, Cut an old one in half to make sure I know where the pivot is and try again.  This time I get 3/4" toe measuring to the 1 point on the chassis (This is over 6.5" of suspension travel the full range from A-arms interfering with chassis top and bottom).   Now becoming frustrated I try again..   better but still back to 5/8" toe.  So I take everything apart, move to the other side of the suspension and try again..  Still 5/8" toe.  It is at this point that I begin to struggle mentally.  I know that there are no problems that I won't eventually work my way out of but I start to get frustrated and start thinking about all the challenges left on the car (Here's looking at you front UBJ mounting) and I start to question why I am doing this.   I'm not sure how everyone else is but the peak to valley of emotions when workign on a project like this can swing wildly and quickly.  Some moments you ride the high of having just finished something big and having it work, or are jamming on knowing how cool where you are heading is, and other moments you can only see what's left, and you get really focused on just how much work there is.  Building a car from scratch is cool you get to do everything however you want and build everything by hand, but the flip side is you have to do EVERYTHING, and cars have a lot of things.  Once something happens with the build that is that first wave that crashes over you I can easily start to feel like I'm drowning.  This was one of those times.  

It is at this point in a pit of despair ready to throw car parts and make for-sale posts that I say to myself.. I should check the toe again at the top and bottom by measuring the front and rear of my bar just to make sure (Again those of you smarter then me already know what I'm going to find).  At both the top and bottom with the toe link positions that lead to 5/8" apparent toe, I have 0 toe.  It's then that I realize my mistake.  See when A-arm suspensions move the track width changes based on the radius of the VSAL.  Since I am using short VSAL in the rear to have a good camber curve, I have a fair amount of track width change over 6.5" of travel..  Like 5/8".    Since I was only measuring 1 spot on the hub bar I was measuring the Track width change and thinking it was Toe change.  My Toe link was in the correct location.  Everything was fine.  

So I guess the lesson learned is when something unexpected happens slow down, check your methods, and make sure the problem actually exists.  Otherwise you may get sad and waste ~1:45 thinking negative thoughts and getting frustrated.  

I snapped this picture and went inside to bed.  Tonight I will try again.

Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter)
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/11/21 4:30 p.m.

In reply to nocones :

Oh yeah, I'm not doing anything 1/10th as complex as you are & it's always a struggle. I got the new main bearings for the DSM back in December & just finally got the last ones replaced yesterday - and that was just swapping out parts. 

gumby
gumby GRM+ Memberand Dork
4/11/21 8:16 p.m.
nocones said:

Building a car from scratch is cool you get to do everything however you want and build everything by hand, but the flip side is you have to do EVERYTHING, and cars have a lot of things.

No joke. I have definitely fallen victim to my own blindness on occasion, and become overwhelmed by the elephant of "yet to do."
It is good to know you were able to extract your cranium from where it was inserted and continue moving forward! The recovery is the measure of greatness.

Gimp (Forum Supporter)
Gimp (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
4/12/21 8:45 a.m.

I drafted that "for sale" post a few times myself.  Good job figuring it out!

iansane
iansane Reader
4/12/21 9:11 a.m.
nocones said:

I'm not sure how everyone else is but the peak to valley of emotions when workign on a project like this can swing wildly and quickly.  Some moments you ride the high of having just finished something big and having it work, or are jamming on knowing how cool where you are heading is, and other moments you can only see what's left, and you get really focused on just how much work there is.  Building a car from scratch is cool you get to do everything however you want and build everything by hand, but the flip side is you have to do EVERYTHING, and cars have a lot of things.  Once something happens with the build that is that first wave that crashes over you I can easily start to feel like I'm drowning.  This was one of those times.

 Preach, good sir.

I feel like that a lot. Most times though I don't realize my own oversight until much later. I'm glad you not only saw the err, but the fact your fab work and math was correct.

This is an amazing and inspiring build. I'm excited when it comes to the top of the thread list.

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/12/21 9:57 a.m.

Not sure if this helps or hurts, but here's F-Dat on 4/12/2020. Note the wrong engine sitting on wood templates not connected to anything. I'd say you're a lot further along. 

Rigante
Rigante New Reader
4/12/21 11:32 a.m.

Keep at it. This is hugely inspirational and informative. 

bgkast (Forum Supporter)
bgkast (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
4/12/21 5:55 p.m.

I've had the same struggle on my build numerous times. I find it's best to step back for a day or so to thinking it over when something isn't working. Just making sure it's only for a day or two and not 6 months or a year like me. 

nocones
nocones GRM+ Memberand UberDork
4/12/21 7:26 p.m.

That's for the support everyone.  I'll never give up on this one.  It's just sometimes you question your sanity plowing forward.  But I think we've established I'm here so its basically an asylum for people like me. 

I try to post the good and the bad with these builds.  It's not always everything goes together according to plan.   I took last night off and am going to clean the garage tonight.  Then tomorrow karplus2 is coming over to do some fab and hang out so that will be nice and will get me right back after it.  

preach (fs)
preach (fs) HalfDork
4/13/21 3:30 p.m.

I am in your corner. Glad you kept your head together.

nocones
nocones GRM+ Memberand UberDork
4/14/21 10:49 a.m.

So Karplus2 came over last night and it was totally wierd having help..  we didn't get a ton done overall but he was busy cutting brackets while I was fidling with getting the rear toe links finished.  

I will get better knowing how to utilize help as it's greatly appreciated and I hope more of it occurs over the summer.  

So the rear toe links are done other then the small antirotation tab that will get added.  Total cost for the two toe links is $0.43 for the steel.  We also got the upper A-arm brackets ready for the 2nd bolt sleeve to attach.  I will show those then I weld them on.  

 

Driven5
Driven5 UltraDork
4/14/21 5:34 p.m.

I haven't checked in a while. Great progress!

In seeing that rear view I can't help but ask... What are the chances that you'll have the space and budget to route the exhaust out the brake light holes?

nocones
nocones GRM+ Memberand UberDork
4/15/21 9:50 a.m.

The rear suspension geometry is finished (+2.5 hrs, +$13.78) Well 1 side, the other side everything is cut I just need to weld it.   For the toe link they are Rod Ends ($5.99 ea) on one end and a bolt tube on the other.  The consequence is that I can only make toe adjustments in 1/2 turn increments and have to remove a bolt to make them.  They are rare and will be independent of the Camber adjustments I will make between the Autox and Drags so I can live with this. 

 

I was going to do some crazy bracket at the arm but end the end decided that if I let the link rotate slightly just a simple pair of flat plates could attach to the arm.  This takes the axis of rotation out of parallel with the axis of the rod end and the lower ball joint.  Because the A-arm end of the link is rigid there will be a very slight torque placed on these brackets when the toe link is adjusted.  I introduced a 1/4" of toe in and out and was still able to bolt everything together and get alignment of the bolt holes by hand so this torque is low enough that there won't be a negative impact.  

The A-arm end is close to the bend in the A-arm and the axis of the toe link points pretty much at the chassis side bushing.   I don't think I will reinforce the A-arm because this load path is so close to intersecting the bushing.  The forces will react through the A-arm putting minimal bending stress on the A-arm.   I rotated the steering arm bracket slightly to center the rod end in it's rotation to minimize any axial loading at the rod end.  

The upper Arm was tack welded together and this is the solution I came up with.  It's just two simple small triangles supporting the 2nd bolt crush tube. 

Overall after much gnashing of teeth and consternation I am pleased with how the rear suspension has turned out.  Yes there are many bolts required to make the suspension work and be adjustable but the cost was low and it will function correctly.  

Rear Suspension Totals:  Time to construct: 21 hrs Budget Cost: $33.22*

*Cost of bolts will be added as 1 line for the car.  I bought all the bolts I thought I needed for $25 as a bulk by weight purchase.  I will update the final cost based on weighing the bolts/nuts/washers actually used.  

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/15/21 1:57 p.m.

That is looking REALLY good!!!!

DjGreggieP
DjGreggieP HalfDork
4/15/21 2:48 p.m.

Watching this with great interest since I have a pipe dream of a Mid/Rear engine'd LH by mounting the front subframe in mid/rear of the unibody and strengthen as needed. Seeing how you are attaching adjustments for rear toe where tie rod ends would normally be has me thinking up some ideas...

When/IF my idea happens, I'll definitely be sending questions and making a build thread, I may check locationing this spring on a car that needs to go for scrap so I'll take pictures then try to find a clean starting point to get the ideas flowing even more so....

nocones
nocones GRM+ Memberand UberDork
4/15/21 4:02 p.m.

In reply to DjGreggieP :

The Chrysler LHS/Intrepid/300M front suspension and drivetrain are interesting.  I've always wanted to acquire a steering rack from them because of the strange way they work that makes them PERFECT for custom applications.  The rack is exposed in the middle and the tire rods connect basically at the center of the rack.  This in itself would be horrible for most custom applications but you could attach a bar that puts the steering inner links at whatever width you need for perfect geometry.  The original Honda Insight has a similar design but also has a Electric power steering if that's your jam.   

The steering link on a LHS is attached to the strut.  This would make their use for a custom Dual A-arm design in a RWD application even easier as the upright is already designed to take steering loads so the strut adapter can be pretty simple. 

Feel free to reach out whenever you start.  

Not sure if you've seen this but this guy built a MR buggy thing with an Intrepid.

http://locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=7995

nocones
nocones GRM+ Memberand UberDork
4/16/21 9:53 a.m.

I got an hour to weld together the right side suspension.  This completes the geometry for the rear. 

In celebration I got out my 5x100 adapters and put on my Big boy tires to see what they looked like.  These are 245/R17 Hoosier's on very HEAVY $50 Speedlines (Seriously the wheel/tire combo is 45lbs which is ~14 lbs heavier then the MG wheel/tire).  They look intimidating.  This is going to be quite the unit.

OA width with these wheel is 72.5".  That makes it 2.5" narrower then a LMP1 car.  Eventually it will loose the spacers and get something like 17x9 RFP1's or other light weight wheels which will bring it down to ~70" OAW and drop 15+lbs per corner.  

You get to see the pictures because I took them because I was excited.

Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter)
Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
4/16/21 10:04 a.m.

I think I need a cigarette and a napkin.....

barefootskater (Shaun)
barefootskater (Shaun) PowerDork
4/16/21 10:14 a.m.

Those wheels are amazing even if they are heavy. Hoping for a miracle that I can make it to challenge this year to witness all these rad shenanigans. 

TED_fiestaHP
TED_fiestaHP HalfDork
4/16/21 10:59 a.m.

  The rear toe link, will be easier to adjust and have a fine adjustment, if you set it up with one end left hand threads and the other end right and threads.  You can get threaded tube ends, both left and right thread.    What you have will work, but just a different option.

nocones
nocones GRM+ Memberand UberDork
4/16/21 11:22 a.m.

In reply to TED_fiestaHP :

Your absolutely correct and it's a good thing to point out for people that may be persuing their own projects at home.  The tube used for the current link is ready to be cut off and tapped to accept the opposite thread rod end.  I actually used both LH and RH threaded rod ends on these links to hand them based on side of the car.  I will replace the current fixed clevis with a 1/2" rod end post challenge but for now it's $12 I don't want to carry in the budget.  I anticipate that the budget is going to be that tight in the end so that is why I am choosing some of the stranger cost savings methods that maybe impact ease of adjustment or component life (like the 1 rod end links or use of sleeve joints that will potentially be high wear or require frequent maintenance) but don't impact actual function.

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/16/21 11:53 a.m.
1 ... 23 24 25 26 27 ... 29
Our Preferred Partners
oCjSTHy4LOfDO0GF3vooAIGDTsXBvkaOoteL0wdwbACbX3saFdGpZp29Y6HNzm1d