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sleepyhead
sleepyhead HalfDork
11/13/17 7:11 a.m.
TheV8Kid said:

In reply to sleepyhead :

Torque = Force x Radius

A lot of times what you are seeing when a car is not going straight on a drag strip is tire spin. Sometimes both tires start spinning at the same time. Most of the time they don't immediately. Thus one tire is spinning and the other is not. A force with a tangential component is being applied at a certain distance from the center of the car ie torque. This torque pushes the car to left or right, depending on which tire is still getting traction. The further away from the center that the tire is, the more torque will be applied given by the above formula. The more torque applied the more it will steer the car.

This is all assuming the car has a locked differential.

Gotcha, it's like differential thrust on an airplane

The notes your dad gave had me trying to think through whether there was a 90deg progressive inertial thing going on... and then I realized I didn't want to do that in my head.

This makes more sense, and makes an interesting thing to gnaw on... effectively this is some interesting systems optimization:  Stick axles are stronger for the weight, keeping the wheels centered over the axle hub reduces load along the axle and hub-face, while also have a beneficial reduction in power transfer lateral stability, and drag reduction.

wheels777
wheels777 SuperDork
11/13/17 7:15 a.m.
mazdeuce - Seth said:

Did you guys narrow this housing? Any pictures of that process if you did? 

Yes we narrowed it.  Have an alignment jig to do big and small bearing Ford and GM rears. 

No pics.  We narrow and or modify 4-5 rears a year and never thought to take a picture of it.

TheV8Kid
TheV8Kid Reader
11/13/17 7:57 a.m.

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

We did narrow it. I don't think we have any pictures of that process. Essentially, we have a 9 inch center section that has pucks to occupy the space of the bearings. Then we use a large solid steel bar to align everything for welding. It's a pretty standard jig.

Like my dad said before, we build our challenge cars ( and rear end housings) around a cheap set of axles. With most aftermarket axles, you have a little leeway to go one way or the other, because they have extra spline cut on them. You can play with the lengths a little bit, but the axles pretty much determine what your housing is going to look like.

Edit: Forgot to reload the page before posting my reply. Just saw Dad's post. 2 for the price of 1 I guess.

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth MegaDork
11/13/17 8:45 a.m.

Thanks, that pretty much answers all the questions I had in regards to keeping the tubes square and fitting axles. Thanks for entertaining my questions. A lot of them center around the idea of "I think I know how it's done, but I wonder how the Nelsons do it?". Your patience is appreciated. 

TheV8Kid
TheV8Kid Reader
11/14/17 5:22 a.m.

Day 18 - November 11, 2016

14 pieces were welded together and ready to be installed.

TheV8Kid
TheV8Kid Reader
11/14/17 5:29 a.m.

Day 19 - November 12, 2016

Harrisburg flea market. Installed right top 4 link bracket.

Patrick
Patrick MegaDork
11/14/17 8:27 p.m.

I really need to go to a flea market with you guys, but I don’t want to know what 5am looks like.  And bring a 9” to narrow next time.  

wheels777
wheels777 SuperDork
11/14/17 9:41 p.m.
Patrick said:

I really need to go to a flea market with you guys, but I don’t want to know what 5am looks like.  And bring a 9” to narrow next time.  

We are at the events by 5am.  The next one we get up at 3:30am.  And it is always cooooold.  But..... its the last one of the year and folks dump their parts.

TheV8Kid
TheV8Kid Reader
11/15/17 5:20 a.m.

Day 20 - November 13, 2016

Left upper bar mount and cut out upper bar passage.

​​​​

TheV8Kid
TheV8Kid Reader
11/15/17 5:25 a.m.

Day 21 - November 16, 2016

Preparing to install upper brackets for the four link bars.

TheV8Kid
TheV8Kid Reader
11/15/17 5:41 a.m.

Just realized I was a year off on all my dates. I went back and fixed them all.

bluej
bluej UltraDork
11/15/17 10:51 a.m.

Will you end up boxing the body around the upper links?

Stampie
Stampie UltraDork
11/15/17 11:08 a.m.

Can you explain to the us the reasons your link arms are so long?

TheV8Kid
TheV8Kid Reader
11/15/17 11:19 a.m.
bluej said:

Will you end up boxing the body around the upper links?

No. Perhaps this is an area that the forum could help on. We need some sort of shift boot that we could use to fill the void. We would like it to be sealed off, but still able to adjust the bars from the inside of the car. I have thought about making some sort slider to accomplish the task, but I'm open to other ideas.

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth MegaDork
11/15/17 11:30 a.m.

I'd do exactly what you suggested and sew up a shift boot. If it's going to see rain then use something waterproof, if not, cut up an old pair of blue jeans for that "vintage American" look. 

stafford1500
stafford1500 HalfDork
11/15/17 11:45 a.m.

Another option is to use brush seals. Basically a broom head on either side of the opening with the bristles just touching tip-to-tip. That would allow the arms to articulate and keep the big chunks of stuff from coming thru.

wheels777
wheels777 SuperDork
11/15/17 12:51 p.m.
Stampie said:

Can you explain to the us the reasons your link arms are so long?

They aren't long.  Rule of thumb is 26" minimum.  Length is needed to maintain the IC position and anti-squat ratio through the launch.  Currently planning to be at 55" and 100-105%.  May lower once we start tuning.  But I doubt we will need to shorten.

bluej
bluej UltraDork
11/15/17 1:54 p.m.
TheV8Kid said:
bluej said:

Will you end up boxing the body around the upper links?

No. Perhaps this is an area that the forum could help on. We need some sort of shift boot that we could use to fill the void. We would like it to be sealed off, but still able to adjust the bars from the inside of the car. I have thought about making some sort slider to accomplish the task, but I'm open to other ideas.

You could box in the rear 3/4's of the area occupied by the links w/in the original body interior, leaving just the front area open where you need access to the link mount. Constructed carefully, you might be able to use a cheap/throwaway rubber boots that fits snugly to the link and the open forward end if the boxed area. Really, it could go as far back as the play in the boot allows.

DeadSkunk
DeadSkunk UberDork
11/15/17 2:24 p.m.

Find 4 shift boots, one for each link, and fit them over the hole in the floor. Or , get some CV joint boots from a small front drive car. How much vertical movement will there actually be right where the links pass through that opening?

Crackers
Crackers HalfDork
11/15/17 2:56 p.m.

Find an old seat bottom and gut it. Use it to hide the whole assembly with hinges on one end for access. 

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth MegaDork
11/15/17 3:03 p.m.

RX7 style smugglers box?

TheV8Kid
TheV8Kid Reader
11/15/17 3:59 p.m.
stafford1500 said:

Another option is to use brush seals. Basically a broom head on either side of the opening with the bristles just touching tip-to-tip. That would allow the arms to articulate and keep the big chunks of stuff from coming thru.

Yeah. We were talking about that, but I'd like to solve if with something a little more weather tight if possible.

TheV8Kid
TheV8Kid Reader
11/15/17 4:01 p.m.
bluej said:
TheV8Kid said:
bluej said:

Will you end up boxing the body around the upper links?

No. Perhaps this is an area that the forum could help on. We need some sort of shift boot that we could use to fill the void. We would like it to be sealed off, but still able to adjust the bars from the inside of the car. I have thought about making some sort slider to accomplish the task, but I'm open to other ideas.

You could box in the rear 3/4's of the area occupied by the links w/in the original body interior, leaving just the front area open where you need access to the link mount. Constructed carefully, you might be able to use a cheap/throwaway rubber boots that fits snugly to the link and the open forward end if the boxed area. Really, it could go as far back as the play in the boot allows.

This is what I was picturing. Does anyone know of any long and skinny type shifter boots that could be found cheap?

TheV8Kid
TheV8Kid Reader
11/15/17 4:03 p.m.

In reply to DeadSkunk :

The lower 4 link bars tie into the original leaf spring mounts. They will only be accessible from the outside. The slots seem above are for the two top bars. The bottom bars are offset outwards. Therefore, we only need 2 shifter boots. Later pictures will show it better maybe I will post one now.

TheV8Kid
TheV8Kid Reader
11/15/17 4:07 p.m.
Crackers said:

Find an old seat bottom and gut it. Use it to hide the whole assembly with hinges on one end for access. 

mazdeuce - Seth said:

Find an old seat bottom and gut it. Use it to hide the whole assembly with hinges on one end for access. 

Not a bad idea, but I think I am partial to the shift boot idea at them moment. I would like to be as light weight and easy to access as possible.

 

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