R63 AMG The Unicorn of my Destruction

Walnut blast the valves and phenolic/plastic scraper sharpened on a bench grinder for the sealant.

mazdeuce wrote: It was $30. The alalog version is $20. The magnetic base was another $12 and it's crap.

That's unfortunate. I mostly wanted the base. lol

I prefer using a razor blade for scraping, however I also prep them on 1000 grit to soften the corners, and only pull the blade. Pushing on the blade usually just digs holes.

Do NOT use the Scotchbrite pads on the air driven die grinder; they eat aluminum.

In reply to NOHOME:

They also spray aluminum oxide grit EVERYWHERE, you will never keep it all out of the sump.

Don't believe me? Believe Buick (jump to the 5 minute mark) https://www.youtube.com/embed/okmcF8nXdW4

For those valves, buy a bottle of CRC GDI cleaner, decant it, and pour the liquid into the chambers. It will dissolve the carbon.

mck1117 wrote: Just look at those hoses and valves crammed in next to the oil filter and in front of the intake. Nobody else does that.

Audi does. Except, when they do that, people on this forum usually curse them for it instead of praise. :)

For cleaning de-carbonizing with the head off, I've heard recommendations for Mopar Combustion Chamber Cleaner. I tried it once on my Miata way back when (had the head off due to burned exhaust valves), seemed to work pretty well.

Javelin wrote: For those valves, buy a bottle of CRC GDI cleaner, decant it, and pour the liquid into the chambers. It will dissolve the carbon.

it won't hurt the aluminum just soaking there, right? because i've got a set of LS6 heads with some stubborn valve deposits that are otherwise ready to run but not clean enough for my liking.

Been following this thread for a bit now. I must say, that was a ballsy move to take that upon yourself, my respect sir. Another thing is I'm not sure why on earth that estimate was so high... where they trying to sell a whole engine?! I know it's a labor intensive job but parts shouldn't have been that high...

But moving along, as for the cam adjusters, do not take them apart... or you'll need to buy new ones. My suggestion is submerge them engine oil until you are ready to go back.

Also, the m156 has enough power to not need a blower. If you were planning to keep this a rare piece, wouldn't it better as a stock item? Besides, the amount of resources that would be needed to make it run properly would be crazy, unless there are plenty of resources you have not mentioned

As for the valves one thing that works on cleaning valves is transmission oil. The detergent in the fluid helps loosen up build up. Of couse the more time you let it sit, the better.

Don't want to drag this post but just wanted to share some info. Wish you bet of luck on finishing up that project!

In reply to Ecast25:

The by the book fix for this problem (assuming bent rod which is what they assume) is throw the motor away and put in a new one. A crate motor from MB is somewhere around $53k. Labor wasn't that bad honestly. Even they knew it was a silly estimate, but as I went farther and farther along it became clear that they really didn't want to mess with this.
Enough power? I'm not sure those words make sense. A supercharger is probably off the table for now. Not really a resources issue as much as I'm not entirely certain that's the route I want to take with this. I can always pull the motor again, It'll be even easier next time.
Transmission fluid is on my list of things to try. I think I need a bit more patience in letting things sit and work.

To BrokenYugo:

OK, that properly scared the hell out of me for using those ever again anywhere near an engine!

NOHOME wrote: To BrokenYugo: OK, that properly scared the hell out of me for using those ever again anywhere near an engine!

Agreed. I'm not using anything more abrasive than a toothbrush.

Mazdeuce,

Enjoying your build (err...rebuild). Your thread caught my eye from a link over at another MB forum. I think you are doing a great job and really enjoying your thought process and logic on this one. Also your situation caught my eye as I live in the Woodlands and am on a first name basis with MBOW dealer. (know the actual owner).

When it comes time to wake things up and if you need the help of a full bore Mercedes DAS Xentry diagnostics system just let me know. Probably most of the adaptations will need to be reset or looked at after coming out of mothballs. I have 4 mercedes and LOVE working on them. Once you learn a brand it becomes intuitive on how things go together and systems work. Nothing but respect for them. I have from a 95 Diesel to a 2016 4x4 Sprinter and it is just amazing how the bloodline stays consistent through the models.

Enjoy your time wrenching....I know I do!

mazdeuce wrote: In reply to Ecast25: The by the book fix for this problem (assuming bent rod which is what they assume) is throw the motor away and put in a new one. A crate motor from MB is somewhere around $53k. Labor wasn't that bad honestly. Even they knew it was a silly estimate, but as I went farther and farther along it became clear that they really didn't want to mess with this. Enough power? I'm not sure those words make sense. A supercharger is probably off the table for now. Not really a resources issue as much as I'm not entirely certain that's the route I want to take with this. I can always pull the motor again, It'll be even easier next time. Transmission fluid is on my list of things to try. I think I need a bit more patience in letting things sit and work.

What I mean with enough power is that it's a pretty strong engine on its own. However, I do understand wanting to see the 'what if'.

To be honest, I've done that repair a couple of times so far and yet I have not seen a broken head bolt cause a rod to bend. But then again, the ones I dealt with could have been lucky enough.

Also, I agree with you in that they pack so much in so little space. But the challenge is what makes this job fun (or nightmare). Of all the models MB put the M156 on, this is the more uncomfortable model to work with.

In reply to KrustyKustom:

I'm going to send you a message because there is no way I can turn down the offer for the electronics. It's what I was most concerned about. My hope had been that it would wake itself up well enough that I could get it down to MBOW and have them plug it in, but this is a better option.
As far as Mercedes Benz of the Woodlands.......they were nice. Always nice even when we didn't see eye to eye. There are probably ways we could have talked more frankly, but when someone says "I want to pay you because otherwise I'm going to install a lift and that's going to be a pain" I'm not sure you really believe them. I'm not sure I would have.
MB still makes a bunch of cars I'd like to own, but I own things out of warranty and turn my own wrenches and I'm not sure how that fits into dealership life over there.
Check your email, I'm sending you a message right now.

Edit: pretty sure some advanced spam detection system ate my message to you. You can send me a message through the message link here and I'll get it. Thanks again!

In reply to Ecast25:

When I read about head bolt failures it seems like the catastrophic "dump all the coolant now" failures are the rare ones. That was part of my cautious optimism about the purchase. The bolts probably won't fail, and if they do they probably won't fail catastrophically and if they do they probably won't take the whole motor. It's an advanced case of "what could go wrong!"
For whatever reason, at the dealer level they start with the worst case scenario and work backwards.

mazdeuce wrote: In reply to Ecast25: When I read about head bolt failures it seems like the catastrophic "dump all the coolant now" failures are the rare ones. That was part of my cautious optimism about the purchase. The bolts probably won't fail, and if they do they probably won't fail catastrophically and if they do they probably won't take the whole motor. It's an advanced case of "what could go wrong!" For whatever reason, at the dealer level they start with the worst case scenario and work backwards.

Yes, they want to give you worst case scenario 1st because if they dont, once everything is apart it's easier to say "you don't need this so your repair is cheaper" than to say "...so we have some bad news".

Your reaction to bad news would more than likely result in a bad customer survey, which to the dealer means a lot of money. Additionally, a lot of places don't like doing the repair just because if anything else fails, they feel like it will come back and bite them since one can argue "you were just in there...".

If there is any info you need to finish the project, please let me know. I would be more than happy to assist!

In reply to Ecast25:

Will do. Huge thanks for your support. I appreciate all the help from everyone.

mazdeuce wrote: The carbon on the combustion chambers is coming off, but the stuff on the valves is not of this world. Any ideas?

I'd suggest media blasting with walnut shells like they do for DI engines.

Mazdeuce,

Sent you an email back. Did the R have a check engine light at the time of disassembly? I would be curious as to the codes it threw..?

After you changed the oil that second time did get get milky quick? Probably a couple of changes would be in order once she is brought back to life...

mazdeuce wrote: In reply to KrustyKustom: I'm going to send you a message because there is no way I can turn down the offer for the electronics. It's what I was most concerned about. My hope had been that it would wake itself up well enough that I could get it down to MBOW and have them plug it in, but this is a better option. As far as Mercedes Benz of the Woodlands.......they were nice. Always nice even when we didn't see eye to eye. There are probably ways we could have talked more frankly, but when someone says "I want to pay you because otherwise I'm going to install a lift and that's going to be a pain" I'm not sure you really believe them. I'm not sure I would have. MB still makes a bunch of cars I'd like to own, but I own things out of warranty and turn my own wrenches and I'm not sure how that fits into dealership life over there. Check your email, I'm sending you a message right now. Edit: pretty sure some advanced spam detection system ate my message to you. You can send me a message through the message link here and I'll get it. Thanks again!

In reply to KrustyKustom:

Got your email, thanks!
I did two complete oil changes. The oil was a little milky the second time and clear the third. I never let it get up to temp and pressurize the coolant though with the idea that I could keep fresh coolant from getting in.
By the time I pulled it into the garage the only code was low coolant. It initially threw codes for misses on both banks and....02 maybe? I'd have to look back through the thread. After a number of start cycles those had gone away. I was honestly running great, except for what it was continuing to blow through the exhaust which I now think was probably moist carbon being burned off in the driver's side bank of cylinders.
It will certainly need a couple of rapid oil changes (10.5 quarts of Mobil1 each time, yay!) And then oil analysis after that. I probably also need to swap out coolant a time or two.

In reply to mazdeuce:

I wouldn't be too concern with much oil in the cooling system. Yes a coolant replacement after reassembly would be a good idea. Would also recommend an oil and filter change after a few miles of driving (to make sure you have no leaks). If possible, there is a valvolive oil additive that works really well (can't remember the name). Would hurt to use it on your final oil change.

BrokenYugo wrote: In reply to NOHOME: They also spray aluminum oxide grit EVERYWHERE, you will never keep it all out of the sump.

I personally destroyed two engines with Scotch-Brite pads. I used them to clean up the intake surfaces on my 429. Cam went flat and it ate half the rod bearings on the drive home. Used them again to clean up the timing cover's block surfaces on a Ford 3.8 - was told then that I shouldn't use a "cookie" on anything exposed to oil. Flushed the area thoroughly with brake cleaner and about ten quarts of oil through the oil pan, car came back a week later with a rod knock and we had to eat an engine.

No matter how much you think you cleaned up afterwards... you didn't.

As far as the carbon on the valves goes... if it's that thin and that hard, think of it as free ceramic coating and leave it alone, IMO.

Yeah, whizzy wheels are right up there with Edison plug fuses over 15 amps and RTV on my list of stuff you should probably need a license to buy.

Blowing the crud out the exhaust.... do you think it may have messed up the cats???

In reply to Knurled:

You just reminded me of something super important: the black silicone gasket ;basically the black glueused on this and every other MB engine is to be removed with a plastic razor. So when it comes to cleaning up, Do not go crazy with it. It is ok if some stays behind. You want to leave the criss-cross pattern present on the mating parts. If you are OCD, you could use the white 3m scuff pads because it wont scratch the metals. Luckly, the valve covers on this engine have a separate gasket which makes it easier. You can use the gasket remover sprays just be super careful, for it likes to cook your skin as well