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Opti
Opti Reader
12/12/14 9:04 p.m.

Found some in NC from 325-500 on car part, but definitely thin on the ground.

Skervey
Skervey New Reader
12/13/14 5:02 p.m.

What is car part? IV got a few local places and people to ask but I'll have to do that during the week. They are definitely none on the ground makes me wonder if I'll snag a good motor or not. Makes me look at the flat tappet motor out of the town car. IV also looked at putting a roller cam in a in that motor and finding bits and prices to make it a better setup. Mustang computer gt40 heads roller cam. Next I need to look as mass fair flow and different computer and things like that. Then seeing if all the wiring will work together but I'm guessing I'll have to do some wiring and spend some time with a good diagram. Are the letter cams roller cams of or flat tappet? Anymore info on your friends setup?

I need to spend some time on the fox body forums to see what thoughts guys are going.

Thanks again for the help guys!

Beagle
Beagle New Reader
12/13/14 8:20 p.m.

There are a few ... http://charlotte.craigslist.org/search/pta?query=302&s=100

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/pts/4803522353.html = carbed 302 for 350.

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/pts/4778453498.html = carbed 302 for 300

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/pts/4781786903.html = GT40P engine, 45k miles 500

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/pts/4761818281.html = Mustang 5.0 "complete" 600

I think that a couple of those are the guy Opti is talking about. Might give him a call and see what all he's got. They come up frequently around here and go pretty quick if they are a good price... patience and perseverance!

LKQ has a 96 Explorer V8 in Charlotte they say on their web page - they are usually very reasonable. http://www.lkqpickyourpart.com/locations/LKQ_Pick_Your_Part_-_Charlotte-228/recents/

That would be before the GT40p. They had some newer Explorers too. They list some engines on Ebay at 300.00 , depends on miles. Might see what they want. I wouldn't be afraid of a 100k mill personally.

Beagle
Beagle New Reader
12/13/14 8:32 p.m.

ah, something else. You probably need a Mustang oil pan, but I wouldn't pass up a good engine deal over it. They are pretty inexpensive new from Rockauto, like 50.00 with the pump pickup. I wouldn't pay more than 20 for a used one with pickup.

Opti
Opti Reader
12/14/14 12:04 a.m.

www.car-part.com is a junkyard search engine. Generally use it as a last resort, but do use it for leads sometimes.

My buddies setup is a 93 5.0 with an fresh but stock bottom end, Fresh GT40 heads (I have no idea what the difference between gt40 and gt40p heads, I know his are from an explorer) as in no porting or fancy valve job, just cleaning and new parts, F303 cam (Single patter 226 .512 114 LSA) used, got for $50 Explorer intake Longtube Headers Catted X pipe Magnaflow exhaust 14* Timing IIRC (it is whatever everyone recommends switching to on a stock 5.0) Literally everything else is stock, no EWP, no electric fans, it even has the stock air box on it.

Made 264whp after dyno tuning through a T5. Has decent manners and runs pretty good. I called him and tried to get the dyno sheet but he no longer has it and I deleted the text a while back.

Id probably just find the cheapest 87 up mustang 5.0 (for the higher compression ratio, oil pan, and accessories. Then find a top end with P heads out a late explorer, check, clean and new springs, and get some GT40P headers and slap it all together.

Beagle
Beagle New Reader
12/14/14 5:12 p.m.

random trivia... not that it matters enough to notice, but Explorers have higher compression ratios than 87-92 Mustangs do. Not by much, but the piston only has valve reliefs and no dish. The TRW's have a very small dish on them in addition to the valve reliefs. It's something like 1 or 2 cc difference, not enough to really sweat.

Caleb
Caleb Reader
12/14/14 6:50 p.m.
Opti wrote: Fresh GT40 heads (I have no idea what the difference between gt40 and gt40p heads, I know his are from an explorer) as in no porting or fancy valve job, just cleaning and new parts,

Standard GT40 heads don't flow as well but have the standard spark plug placement so they have a huge selection of headers,they can be found on early explorers and mustang cobras where the gt40P's are much more common and flow better but have a limited selection of headers they can run with out getting creative.

Skervey
Skervey New Reader
12/14/14 7:09 p.m.

Lots of stuff to think about but I do know one thing the car wont be rotary again... Got the main fuse today and put the battery from my DD in and powered it up. Everything looked to work grate! Motor turned over and everything. So I tried a compression test of the motor by taking out the trailing spark plugs and listen for the puffs. Front rotor has 2 good puffs then a pause, rear rotor only has one... Bummer oh well looks like V8 for sure now!

Now that I have done the test I am going to pull the motor and sell it and the tranny and all the other bits to fund the v8. Still not 100% sure what to do with the 5.0. Iv also thought about running the car with a carb setup until I get all of the parts for the EFI. Pull what ever heads are on it and replace them with gt40 (Only difference iv found between GT40 and GT40P heads is the exhaust. The P heads need different headers to clear the spark plugs. The GT40 heads take any 5.0 headers so the gt40 heads are a bit easier to find parts for and get them for cheaper.) Then swap the cam and get the carb intake and dissy. (ill have to look into firing order at that point.) Then get the car up and on the road with a little power but still have lots of room to grow and build the motor into a EFI with good HP. I can still destroy the tires and spend more time planning out the EFI and get the right intake/mass airflow/computer/wiring harness/ supporting mods. It will be more work and a bit more $ in the long run but that way it will get the car up and running sooner to keep me interested in the project and I can see and feel the difference in the different setups. And I know im going to want to keep building the car so why put a built motor in when I can slowly build up the motor as my skills and knowledge of the car get better.

Opti
Opti Reader
12/14/14 8:31 p.m.

If you can get P headers, apparently the P heads do flow quite a bit better than the standard gt40s, at least thats what a little googly fu and corral.net would lead you to believe. Shorties are like 250 on fleabay.

Skervey
Skervey New Reader
12/14/14 9:35 p.m.

Thanks Opti I all the info on the mustang forums are all over the place and good info is hard to come by! This forum has been amazing and y'all have really helped a lot. I did some looking on CL and intakes and carbs can be had for under $150 and then a vacuum advance distributor new $100 or less for used. I can run that setup for a while and sell the carb parts when I go back to EFI. I like the idea of the slow build now that im thinking about it. And While EFI is much better we did fine with carburetors for years and as long as I get it tuned and don't let it sit with the crap gas we have now I should be fine. I know lots of people that still DD a carbed car. But the cold starting and gas millage from EFI will be grate to look forward to.

So now the plan...

Stage 1 of the build

  1. Pull the mazda motor and have a moment of silence in its honor, then sell the parts off. +$800
  2. Find a complete explorer motor in good shape with low miles(sub 100K).-$600
  3. Carb parts for the explorer motor.-$300
  4. Get a T5 and bell housing, flywheel and clutch (new).-$800
  5. Get a granny speed kit or build MM.-$400
  6. Install motor running minim wiring for carb setup and for a MSD box.-$200
  7. Drive shaft and cooling.-$500
  8. Feed the hungry with donuts!

That's a pretty basic run down of the start to this build(as of right now). Things will change as I get into everything but this gives me a start! Any issues you see with it please let me know I want people to shoot holes all in my plan so I can help stop any mistakes before I get to them! I think this will make for a good long build that I can learn more and have fun and keep the bank account as happy as I can. From a ruff guess im looking at $2000 to do it that's counting selling the stock motor for funds. Not to bad and almost a contender for $2015 challenge.

This wont get me a power house take down anything at the lights car but it will be fun with the TQ of the V8 and knowing it still has tons of room to grow.

jgrewe
jgrewe Reader
12/14/14 10:24 p.m.

I would run some seafoam through the rotary, there is still hope for it for resale value. If there are two puffs on a rotor that means it is most likely a side seal that is stuck. You will only get one hard puff or thump if an apex seal is gone because the air will bleed back and forth between the two faces of the rotor.

Side seals will burn too, has the engine been run at all?

Skervey
Skervey New Reader
12/15/14 7:03 a.m.

The motor had been run I think 30K on the rebuild with the bridgeport but has sat for 6 months. The PO would put a little ATF in the intake and spin the motor every week or so to keep it from locking up. I have not heard the motor running because he sold me the car with no carbs. He was planning on doing a V8 swap as well before he got into another project.

Will a little sea foam work with no carb and it not running. Iv seen people sea foam RX8's to decarben them. Also How much would the motor be worth by its self?

I plan on selling the motor trans clutch and fly wheel individually it will take longer but I think ill get the most bang for the buck that way.

jgrewe
jgrewe Reader
12/15/14 9:19 a.m.

Really anything that will loosen stuck things will work. The rear rotor sounds like an apex seal. But I'd try everything before I junked it or pulled it apart. You can see about 90% of the apex seal in the exhaust port if it has been ported at all. See if any feels sharp on an edge. If one does you have a boat anchor. You can also push on the seals with a wood dowel or something that is plastic, see if they all have a little spring to them. Should move a few mm's.

I have really low values in my head because I build my own. Even if I hear one run,they are all cores to me. You might get more out of the parts of the engine if you take it apart. Once you can really show someone what they are getting it is only a few hundred bucks to put one back together with new seals.

Skervey
Skervey New Reader
12/15/14 9:50 a.m.

Ya i figured it wasent worth much $300 to a good buyer. Nothing against rotary motors (i wish mine was working). I just think its funny that they all say the rotary motors are just as reliable as piston but when it comes to used motors they all say they are junk and all of them will need to be rebuilt... Just stinks i really want a different type of motor to be as reliable and as common as a piston motor just for kicks. Well anyway ill try some sea foam but looks like ill pull it and just sell it for what it is and hope for the best. Then continue with the v8.

fidelity101
fidelity101 SuperDork
12/16/14 8:49 a.m.

pop the lower intake manifold and count the ports, if its 6 port its likely not as worthwhile as a 4 port.

Pop the exhaust manifold off and rotate the engine over with a wrench, get it to where the apex seal is clearly visible over the exhaust port. Then get a can of spray seafoam and/or carb clean and hose that sucker down. Then get a piece of wood or plastic and press on the apex seal repeatedly up and down then re-spray/repeat a few times until the seal is no longer stuck or more free.

Then do a compression test.

Skervey
Skervey New Reader
12/16/14 1:18 p.m.

Ok ill give that a try. I will try and remove the manifold while the motor is still in the car just put the whole car on jack stands last night to start taking out the motor. I plan on taking my time and mark everthing to help when the v8 goes back in. I may post the motor tonight on CL and here on the forum so if you are intreated in it or the tranny, clutch, fly wheel or other parts let me know.

Thanks again guys!

fidelity101
fidelity101 SuperDork
12/16/14 3:56 p.m.

4 bolt and 2 nuts, 12mm. nice and easy with an extension.

exhaust is 4 14mm nuts. a little PB blaster may help or it may come off easy.

Where are you located?

Skervey
Skervey New Reader
12/16/14 4:14 p.m.

Im in Charlotte NC, If you really wanted parts I could ship them through work (we use ABF and get a good deal) Thanks for the info that makes it crazy easy!! Im going to try and get it off tonight and take some pic and free the apexes.

Any tricks to pulling the motor and trans?

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr GRM+ Memberand Dork
12/16/14 9:59 p.m.

Yep, unbolt exhaust. Unbolt driveshaft and remove. Undo trans and starter wiring. Remove shifter. Unbolt trans cross member (4 bolts). Unbolt two engine mounts from underneath on the crossmember. Pull engine and trans together. Make sure you unbolt the oil cooler lines first. There may be some other wires and stuff that I can't see that need unplugged.

Should take 1 hour with current setup if you know what you are doing and exhaust isn't too rusty.

Skervey
Skervey New Reader
12/17/14 6:47 a.m.

Ok well it shouldn't take me to long to pull the motor just need to get our motor hoist back from a friend. I got the exhaust manifold off last night with the help of an electric impact. I couldn't see in the motor but i did feel the apex and it feels good no chips or cracks and still kind of "sharp". So i think ill take this week and start to pull the bits off the motor making sure to mark everything and take a lot more pic. As far as the new motor havent really taken any steps to getting one but with the holidays it might be hard to meet up with someone on CL to look at possible motors.

Also going to do a little rust repair under the hood while everything is out and then might as well repaint everything. Any colors better than others for under the hood. Im thinking an industrial gray so it wont look as dirty when its dirty but ill still be able to see leaks and other issues.

fidelity101
fidelity101 SuperDork
12/17/14 9:11 a.m.

In reply to Skervey:

nope, its really easy.

remove driveshaft. unbolt transmount from body, remove electrical connection to starter. 2 engine mounts. disconnect oil cooler lines, plug radiator/engine inlet/outlet with cork or a rubber stopper. Radiator removal is optional but it is easier on reinstallation when its out. But I haven't had a stock radiator in a while, mine is huge.

Skervey
Skervey New Reader
12/17/14 7:14 p.m.

Well Iv gotten all the electrical bits unplugged and marked as to there they go. Started to pull the drive shaft but the nuts on the diff side wouldn't budge... doesn't help I cant really get all of the wrench on them. But I pulled with all my might and nothing. So they are soaking with PB blaster and ill try again tomorrow!

In other news I believe I have found my motor. Not to far away its a GT40P with 45,000 miles out of a mountaineer. He also has a new foxbody oil pan and pick up (needed to fit in the rx7) and a new harmonic balancer that has cut gears for the distributor. The guy sounded like he knew a lot about the motor and about 5.0 in general so im hopping its a good motor. And at $600 I think its a good buy! Im trying to go Friday to pick it all up. Fingers crossed!

Don49
Don49 HalfDork
12/17/14 7:56 p.m.

You need to turn the bolts on the driveshaft. The nuts go against a flat and won't turn.

Skervey
Skervey New Reader
12/17/14 9:10 p.m.

Well I hit the bolts with the electric impact and they didn't move... Might have to get the cheater bar out!

Skervey
Skervey HalfDork
12/20/14 12:17 a.m.

Iv Got a big progress report for tonight!

Start with the little things Iv done over the last few days. After soaking the bolts with PB blaster and getting the air gun out I got the drive shaft out with not much fuss. I then pulled all the wires for the tranny and speedo cable. Marked all the wires then drained the oil and tranny fluid. The only thing I lack to get the motor out is draining the coolant and taking off the hood and taking the radiator out. So a good little bit of progress but still the easy stuff.

Now for the big stuff!

smallIMG_1462

Yep thats right its a V8. Found this little beauty on CL. Seller picked up for his notch back (Witch was an amazing car) but ended up getting a 4 bolt main ford racing block and he is running a supercharger on it as well. So This motor was sitting with nothing much to do... So I snagged it. Its a 96 or 97 5.0 out of a Mercury mountaineer. Its a GT40P motor with only 45,000k on it! It had been sitting for a year but spins over fine and seems to have really good compression. It also came with a foxbody oil pan witch is needed to do the swap, and a ford racing harmonic balancer. Don't know why the harmonic balancer is needed or what advantage a ford racing one will have but its more value. Also grabbed the stock exhaust manifold and power steering pump. All of this for $550 witch I think is a good deal.

smallIMG_1458 smallIMG_1491 smallIMG_1471 smallIMG_1472

You know it much be good when it says OK right on it!

Once I got it home I pulled the spark plugs and spun the motor over to get an idea of health and it seemed really good. The plugs witch looked to be OEM and were very clean.

Than had to pull a valve cover to see what the inside looked like and I was amazed again at how clean it was.

The best thing to see cast in a set of 5.0 heads.

So now the hunt is for a T5 to bolt behind this thing. And that's where my questions start. Will any T5 WC fit behind this motor?? Will I just need to specify the trans and motor when going to buy a clutch and flywheel? Don't know much about fitting transmission and when I look up t5 to explorer motor its a bunch of people wanting to put a 5 speed in there explorer and a bunch of other people saying the t5 cant handle a 4000lb SUV. So much help is needed. I found a T5 with bell housing, flywheel, and shiftier for $500 witch would be a fair price but I don't know if it will fit my motor...

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