SkinnyG's '61 Chevy Apache 10

In reply to SkinnyG (Forum Supporter) :

Very cool.  I've only done a little hammer & dolly work, and that was forever ago on my old 68 Spitfire.  I used a claw hammer with a small sledge as a dolly.  Turned out surprisingly well.

I like how he used the reflection to gauge the surface flatness.  When I was repairing rowing boats several years ago I'd use the reflection from the overhead florescent tubes the same way.

Installed the bottom door skin today, and spent pretty much forever trying to planish the weld.

All my four letter words had five syllables.

Grrrr.

I assumed the lower skin would fit right.  It didn't.  It isn't "curved" in the middle of the door, it's only curved at the flange.  This resulted in a 3/8" valley below the weld.

Before all you pro's point out the importance of planishing the weld, do know that this was gas welded, planished, and the weld is f-l-a-t. The center of the patch has no 'body" to it - it's just doing what it was (not) bent to do.

Straight at the weld:

Then what - should I have English Wheeled it? I can't get right up to the flange with the wheel.

Not impressed.  May have to by full door skins.

3/8" gap half-way down the panel:

Bottom is decent enough:

I am going to assume that the skin had the correct shape before welding?

Is it an oil-can where you can push it up but it pops back down? If so then push it back up and someehere around the perimeter you will find a spot where lightly pushing down on the spot will "lock" the oilcan in the correct shape. You need to shrink that spot.

I didn't notice if it had the shape before I put it on, but I took a closer look at the other skin, and it's curved only at the flange where the flange is curved.

It is most definitely NOT oil-canning.  It needs stretching, but that's a LOT of stretching, and I cannot get in there to stretch it.

Looks like you did a bunch or shrinking  with the stud welder already?

You can try putting down a series of studs, heat the local area around a stud to red hot and then pull the stud gently to make a small localized hill. That would be stretched metal. Planish them down WHEN COOL and you should end up with more crown. Could work.

I was trying to stretch it up with the slide hammer, but it was taking forever.  I cannot get my arm everywhere in there to planish.  It might be easier to just make a new skin. 

In reply to SkinnyG (Forum Supporter) :

What I was trying to get across is much like a sandbag where you end up with a bunch of raised spots that when flattened, take up more surface area and hence the crown. Dont know if it would work or not, but heating the area around the stud would be key to the effort. Easy enough to bench test and no loss if it does not work

I could give it a try.

If it works, I don't have to replace the panel.

If it doesn't work, it was knackered anyway and I didn't lose anything.

So I finally taught myself the French Wheel and made this:

The flanges got formed with the tipping wheel on the bead roller, then tweaked with a..... um..... it's a piece of 1/2" round bar with a 5/8" deep slot cut into it - I use it to fold sheet metal over, like a hem sort of.  I don't know what they're called.

Tipping the flange also took the curve out of the ends of the panel, but the Shrinker brought it back.  I marked 1" increments on the edges of the skin so I could know where to shrink it more "7/8/9" is easy to remember.

I fiddled with the gap to make it as tight as possible so as to get a good weld in there.  Zero gap = minimal distortion.

So, if my wee tap came in so I can fix my HVLP Touch-Up gun, I should have some epoxy primer on the inside, ready for welding next weekend.  Which is where I was at the start of -this- weekend.  Woo hoo.

- Cut the skin, plus about 1" extra for flanges
- English Wheel some curve into the panel
- Tipping Wheel on the Bead Roller to make the flanges
- Shrink the flanges to put the curve back in.
 

New skin and new exposed inner frame is epoxy primered on the inside.  Ready for welding on the weekend.

Di you totally ditch the purchased and mangled lower skin, and just make your own?  Looks to be the case.

Also, what's a "French wheel"?

A French Wheel looks just like an English Wheel, except you use a lot of French while working it.

Yes, I totally ditched the purchased skin, and made my own.

I picked up another half-sheet of 18ga this morning as I didn't have enough to do the passenger door with what I had.

Also stripped the passenger door down to bare.

SkinnyG (Forum Supporter) said:

A French Wheel looks just like an English Wheel, except you use a lot of French while working it.

Citroen 2CV!!! (That's French for E36 M3.)

The door is now skinned.  It didn't go the way I had planned, but it's on and it looks decent.

I intended to oxy-acetylene weld the skin, and to practice, I cut a piece of scrap 12" long in half, tacked it, planished it, and welded it together. Then cut it in half again in another spot, did it again. And again. I felt confident.

But oxy-acetylene had other ideas.

I tried and tried to make it submit, and finally - I snapped (Lose it. Heater. Smoker. Flurry to the solar plexus. The torch tip goes for it. I gave him so many lefts he was begging for a right.Uppercut. Jab. Roundhouse kick to the face. He's lying there in a puddle of his own excrement. I says "How's that?"), and MIG welded the skin on.  It worked out fine.

I do not have the metalworking skills to work the metal into perfection.  And the more I try, the less patience I have for it. I -am- however, plenty good at filler.

At any rate, here's the skin, installed:

In reply to SkinnyG (Forum Supporter) :

Thanks for that.

I'd forgotten all about Bro Jake and that 4 hour long fart joke they called a morning show.

Passenger door had a mild crease along its full width, which is going to be hard to hammer out (though not impossible).  The bottom of the door seems much more solid than the driver's door, but it's ALWAYS a better idea to pull the skin off and just re-skin it.  How else are you going to be able to deal with this rust? Rust between the frame and skin becomes bubbles after its painted.

Some dry days are in the forecast, so I should be able to get it all blasted.  Then make another skin.

Got the inside sandblasted today.  Some rust holes in the door bottom showed up, no biggie.  Next dry day is Saturday.  Hope to get it all done then.

Spent some time at a local hot rod shop to see all their autobody stuff, and chat with the guys and the owner.  Cool experience.

They had a late 40's Chevy truck that the truck owner had cut the cab to lengthen it a few inches, and then discovered he was in over his head, and brought it to them to fix.  It wasn't properly braced, so it's a ton of work.

They had a sweet 510 - I asked if there was enough metal in it to weld to, and they said nope - they had close to $50,000 metal fabrication in it.

A neat 50's Apache that had the right corner of the cab stoved in 20 years ago, finally getting repaired.  Damage was really extensive, and messed up everything up to the front clip as well. They showed me the super expensive aftermarket door that needed a port-a-power through the window to correct the shape enough for even the glass to fit.

A sweet '56 Nomad getting re-done, because the paint and bodywork done by another shop wasn't good enough for the car owner.

A gorgeous mall-rated 60's Blazer, lifted, huge rims, chrome everything, gorgeous interior, gorgeous paint, mural on the tailgate, not at ALL my style, but I can appreciate the work that went into it - you'd never drive it; it gets trailered everywhere.

A wack of other cool rides as well.

It inspired me to spend some time correcting the door gaps on my '61.

50k on a Datsun sounds wild.

And the door gaps look great.

Matte red and white on a '56 Nomad looks really good from here.

I think you should be proud of the work you've done and are pushing through on your truck.  Not many folks could do all of what you're doing.

Loving this thread.

If you ever want a change of occupation, just pick up the phone.