Looking for 3.4L engines. The article at http://fiero34swap.eleventenths.org/ was very specific about being only for 1993 - 1995 Camaro and Firebird 3400s (VIN code S). Those have been hard to find locally and look to be about $1,000 for a long block shipped. On eBay Motors I came across the 3400 VIN code E engines in Aztecs, Grand Ams, and lots of other early 2000s GMs. Those are plentiful and cost about 1/2 of what the '93 - '95 engines are going for. I'm hoping I can find more details about the variations of the 3400 and what complications there are. I assume that the later model ones will have ECU issues with CAN for ABS, transmission, and additional sensors. The higher cost of an older engine will probably pay off in simplicity. Also, I'd rather find a complete car to pull parts from than get a junkyard longblock with a chopped harness. I've got about 20 browser tabs open now. Time to close them all and get another cup of coffee.
Edits after Coffee...
2.8 - 3400 hybrid? https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20090219-2-086408.html#p6
Any thoughts or opinions on the LA1 swap?
Now looking at "730 ecm" 1227730 ecm and LA1 3400...
Great info across the whole site 'Sinister Performance'. Here's a few highlights:
http://www.gmtuners.com/Customer/3.4DOHCFiero/swap.htm
http://www.gmtuners.com/techinfo.htm
http://www.gmtuners.com/files/Fiero_3400_4T65E_wiring.pdf
...Lunch and nap time.
GM didn't introduce CAN until 2003 at the earliest, but even then, the computers are easy to set up with aftermarket software to run without any additional modules connected. The later FWD aluminum-head 3400s are better engines than the old F-body 3.4Ls anyway. Just change the intake gaskets.
We swapped my 2.8L Beretta LeMons car to a 3400 out of a '99 Alero. We used the Alero computer, and it was very easy to set up with HP Tuners to run standalone on the Alero wiring harness. It was an awesome swap, and I would highly recommend it. Great power, perfect reliability, and the exhaust note...well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.
I would ditch the old 730 ECM stuff and plan to just use the newer computer and wiring harness with HP Tuners.
obsolete said:
GM didn't introduce CAN until 2003 at the earliest, but even then, the computers are easy to set up with aftermarket software to run without any additional modules connected. The later FWD aluminum-head 3400s are better engines than the old F-body 3.4Ls anyway. Just change the intake gaskets.
We swapped my 2.8L Beretta LeMons car to a 3400 out of a '99 Alero. We used the Alero computer, and it was very easy to set up with HP Tuners to run standalone on the Alero wiring harness. It was an awesome swap, and I would highly recommend it. Great power, perfect reliability, and the exhaust note...well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.
I would ditch the old 730 ECM stuff and plan to just use the newer computer and wiring harness with HP Tuners.
This. Hptuners is basically 'computer-caveman' user-friendly. If an idiot like me could learn how to use it proficiently enough, I'm confident everyone on this board can as well.
Just ran across a salvage '06 Buick Rendezvous up for auction tomorrow. It has the LX9 3.5 which from what I have read is an easy upgrade for cars with the 3.1 or 3.4. The price is very Challenge Friendly at about $500 for the whole totaled car including fees. Under 140k miles and all damage looks like it's behind the driver's door.
So.... Yes to LX9 3.5? or slow my happy ass down and be patient?
Some 3.5 swap info: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/127251.html https://www.milzymotorsports.com/3500-swap/ http://www.fierosearch.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?start=2&forum=0&where=SUB&SearchQuery=3500&Action=DoSearch
Edit: adding this one is cuz I don't have time to read it in detail and it looks like good discussion: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/142772.html
3500 that mofo. When the 3400 in my miata dies that's what im doing
LX9 uses an electronic throttle body (DBW), so you'll need the pedal from the donor car at a minimum, and the TAC module, if it has one. I actually like DBW, especially for street car swaps (free cruise control!) but it scares a lot of people off. It may not be what you want for a race car. The LS DBW setups generally work well and are easy to swap, but I don't know enough about the LX9 setup to say whether you should steer clear or go for it.
Wit tech makes an adapter to bolt on a cable drive throttle body. Or you can make your own with a chunk of aluminum and a 3400 throttle body. Or bigger...
Thx for the quick replies. You guys are awesome. Doing the Buy it Now ...now.
In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :
Is it a simple change with HP Tuners to switch between DBW and cable throttle, then? Or do you have to run it off an old 3400 computer? I assume the crank and cam triggers are the same between the LA1 and LX9. I know the LZ4 and LZ9 are different.
In reply to obsolete :
I honestly cannot say. I looked at it from the end of replacing an earlier 3400 with it, and utilizing those electronics.
Sorry for the confusion.
In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :
Since I have the whole car I plan to pull the DBW pedal and harness. There are enough documented builds that I can (hopefully) figure it out by the time I get to it.
I have already worked a cable engine in a DBW Boxster by adapting a few parts.
Good plan! Modern engine swaps are way easier when you start with the complete donor car. Just swap everything attached to the harness - e-pedal, key and ignition, body modules, fuse box, etc. You may not even need HPTuners if you do that.
Oops... I went ahead and paid the added fee for delivery rather than asking my 'pretty much son-in-law' to pick it up for me. I figured that it would be delivered tomorrow or Thursday. When I got back from doing a short maintenance check flight on the helicopter, I had received an email from Copart saying that the car had been picked up an hour ago and was on the way. I'm at work until 7 pm, so I called Mrs AAZCD.
Me: "It's on the way and they could be delivering it any time now."
Her: "Delivering what?"
Me: "The car."
Her, sounding a little angry: "Wait, you got a whole car? I thought it was just an engine. What do you mean... Where are we going to put another car?"
Me: (... E36 M3 ) "Um... just have them unload it in the yard or on the cul de sac. I'll figure it out when I get home. It's driveable." I don't want to tell her that one of the rear wheels is canted about 20 degrees and that 'driveable' may not mean that it can be 'driven'. That will be my problem to figure out later.
AAZCD (Forum Supporter) said:
Her, sounding a little angry: "Wait, you got a whole car? I thought it was just an engine. What do you mean... Where are we going to put another car?"
Me: (... E36 M3 ) "Um... just have them unload it in the yard or on the cul de sac. I'll figure it out when I get home. It's driveable." I don't want to tell her that one of the rear wheels is canted about 20 degrees and that 'driveable' may not mean that it can be 'driven'. That will be my problem to figure out later.
I mean, you aren't. But we are.
And ...no delivery. Yesterday evening I received a Dear Jon email from Copart saying that there was a change and Manuel had canceled. Yet, when I check the status of the Buick, it has left the lot. Mrs AAZCD has a pot luck lunch to attend, so I've got my 'pretty much son-in-law' on standby to receive the car depending on when/if it is delivered.
There have been three times in my marriage that i went to buy a part (two transmissions, one engine) that i came home with a whole car attached to the part i needed.
My wife could have done WAY better than me.
We shouldn't let our wives talk.....
It's ALWAYS better to ask for forgiveness rather than acceptance.
The weather this morning was below the minimum that I need to fly, so when I got a call from the tow company dispatcher, I went home to receive that Buick myself (which helped make life happier with Mrs AAZCD). The tow truck arrived with a nice husband and wife team and they were very curious about my plans for the car. "You don't plan to rebuild that do you?" I explained the Fiero and they had a good look at my 2019 Challenge Boxster. They want to follow along with the build now.
The battery in the Buick is completely dead and I didn't have time to work on getting it started. It's not moving anywhere anyway without being dragged.
I have to wonder if you could hit that wheel that is bent outward hard enough with your pickup truck trailer ball to move it straight enough to test drive it and make sure that the drivetrain is good
Maybe just put it on jackstands and run it off the ground to test things out? I would be afraid of cracking something (if it's not already broken) with that rear wheel assembly and making the car even more dangerous to drive.
obsolete said:
LX9 uses an electronic throttle body (DBW), so you'll need the pedal from the donor car at a minimum, and the TAC module, if it has one. I actually like DBW, especially for street car swaps (free cruise control!) but it scares a lot of people off. It may not be what you want for a race car. The LS DBW setups generally work well and are easy to swap, but I don't know enough about the LX9 setup to say whether you should steer clear or go for it.
I had the same DBW throttle question with my EcoBoost swapped Miata. Initially I mounted the complete DBW pedal assembly under the hood and connected it to the original throttle cable because it was a quick way to get the car working. Once it was in and I did a little checking it offers more "pedal travel" than the FBW pedal alone, so it's easier to get "the right amount" of added throttle in those touchy situations. I think I'll be leaving it this way long term.
In reply to pres589 (djronnebaum) :
I honestly didn't think about stands. I was trying to thi k of how to get it drivable to test....
Significant force was all i was coming up with. Thanks!
In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :
I was thinking back to the times I had to 'drive' a car on a lift so a mechanic back at some shops I worked at could find a driveline noise or vibration. Just let the car coast down from speed to near-idle before applying brakes so the torque reaction doesn't pull the car off the stands and it's pretty safe, relatively speaking.
There's a broken lower control arm in the back seat, but I'm not sure that it came from this car. I'll inspect the front for damage and if it looks okay, I'm going to put some heavy cardboard under the back wheels and drive it like it's on food trays.
