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Misha_
Misha_ New Reader
12/2/20 12:34 a.m.

In reply to Johno100 :

I meant the timing of the high pressure fuel pump. For sure timing of cams is crucial! That is how I got into "heads off" territory in first place lol. Some people say that it doesn't matter how you put it in as long as gears mesh, others say that the pump works in impulses and it's supposed to be timed so that it pushes when an injector fires so as to keep constant pressure (at least that is my understanding of what I read). Wis instructions which I can provide if anyone wants, say to find a tooth at center of counter weigh on the HPFP, then count counterclockwise to find 5th and 6th teeth from it. Those teeth should be vertical (I understood that as pointing up perpendicular to horizon) when the pump in inserted while engine is at TDC. 

My intakes were not as bad as wae's but they were gummed up bad as well. If you are up for it, I recommend cleaning them, and you will probably want to clean I take ports in the heads as well. SUPER important to ensure valves are closed as you clean them. I didn't do it, and got enough crap into cylinder to keep engine from turning over. But you probably know this. I am not a mechanic by any means. While I had heads off, I took note of when each cylinder is at TDC in relation to the TDC on the crankshaft flywheel (in degrees). I posted his info on MBWorld. I can provide that tomorrow here as well if you want. That will tell you when valves are closed.

In reply to wae:

Thanks mate! Can you vent it just to atmosphere? I thought that it needed to be "sucked" out. I saw mods where people route it to front of engine with a catch can then back to intake to reduce suction. But it worried me that without enough suction, more unburnt gasses will linger in crankcase leading to sludge. That not how this works? I like the idea otherwise... I think another important bit is keeping air filters clean.

I also got Arnott! Remanufactured, so I can keep the ADS functional. Glad to hear they work for you, promising :)

 

Misha_
Misha_ New Reader
12/4/20 12:30 p.m.

Hey guys I thought I would share my experience so far.

I got the new struts, disks and pads on finally and was able to take the GL out for a real spin. 

Definite improvement in power! It was very unresponsive before. With clean intakes it feels solid. Rpms are steady throughout. 

Not all is well:

1. Truck has a shudder. It almost always appears around 60km/h and 1500rpm. In short bursts. It appears at other speeds as well but I think any time it is going around this speed it happens. Also I think it happens when truck wants to shift. Maybe misfire or EGR, but I think transmission problem here - rpms are constant. I want to implement the EGR delete today, and will report my findings, also tell wae my experience with Vladimir's mod :) won't talk about it here otherwise since this is wae's ENGINE rebuild support thread :)

2. Interestingly enough I got a check engine light shortly after leaving my house (there was one before I started rebuild due to EGR). When I stopped to check it with iCarsoft... It had nothing to do with EGR. It said aborted dpf clean. I tried to force it with my iCarsoft tool then, but it said my coolant temperature was not within 80c limit. What temp was it? Oh a measly 1100. And kept climbing to 1500 after I turned off the engine. Or maybe it was -1100 and dropped to -1500. So either iCarsoft gives incorrect reading or more likely I have a sensor to replace lol. I kept driving with CEL. Once I got to my planned halfway point, I stopped and cleared it. I was hoping that dpf clean failed due to me stopping at lights en route to highway. On way back I took backroads without stopping for good 30-40 min. So I have never experienced a dpf clean, and maybe you guys can share your experiences. After clearing CEL the truck started getting uncomfortably hot inside. Like I had AC on it was so unpleasant, and there was a bit of burning smell. It wasn't like diesel exhaust but almost plasticky burning smell. This went on for about half the trip home, the last half the car felt normal and I had climate control set to normal temperature. Drove another 5k and back city km this morning to drop off my son as well. No smell today and still no CEL!. Did you guys experience anything similar in your cars/trucks? I have no clue what the dpf clean should feel like and whether that was it. It is possible it was long overdue due to state of intakes and all, so maybe it was extra intense for that reason?

3. At first I attributed burning smell to leaky injector. Since fitting everything back together, I notice a ticking/pssht kind of sound from right (passenger side). I heard something similar on videos and people said his is injector blow by. But I do not see any smoke visually escaping from either injector. Maybe it's a regular injector tick I'm just not used to. I did see gas coming out of PCV valve (before I connected batwing, for testing), so I think I would have seen something if it was escaping injector. On the weekend I intend to put some water around them and see if I can catch any bubbles. If not, must be a normal diesel sound (my first so idk what to expect on a healthy one). You guys have any better ideas how to zero in on blow by one? By the way, I think I remember seeing different thickness copper crush washers for the injectors on FCP euro. I kind of regret not getting the thickest ones. Wae, this may be useful to you to ensure you get best seal when you button everything back up. I will try to find them.

Happy Friday ladies and gents!

ronniejay
ronniejay New Reader
12/4/20 4:48 p.m.

bookmark for tracking

wae
wae UberDork
12/4/20 6:41 p.m.
Misha_ said:

Thanks mate! Can you vent it just to atmosphere? I thought that it needed to be "sucked" out. I saw mods where people route it to front of engine with a catch can then back to intake to reduce suction. But it worried me that without enough suction, more unburnt gasses will linger in crankcase leading to sludge. That not how this works? I like the idea otherwise... I think another important bit is keeping air filters clean.

I also got Arnott! Remanufactured, so I can keep the ADS functional. Glad to hear they work for you, promising :)

The way it's been told to me, by hanging the tube down the air passing over it as the car moves down the highway will create a venturi effect which will provide enough vacuum.  A decent catch can wouldn't be the worst thing, either.

wae
wae UberDork
12/4/20 6:49 p.m.

In reply to Misha_ :

Definitely sounds like you're needing a new sensor or have a ground wire or something that isn't quite right there!  Or you were taking your test drive near the surface of the sun.  I know that the DPF cycle requires a certain drive pattern and I always thought it smelled like ammonia but I don't recall it making things particularly hot in the cabin.  But then, it's been a couple years since I've been able to drive mine.

They're a bit noisy by default, so you should expect some noise, but it shouldn't be too crazy.  You might try unplugging each injector one at a time to see if you can tell a difference.  When I was trying to do that on mine, I could start it up, pull the power from one injector, but then I'd have to shut it down, plug the injector back in, clear the codes, and start over with the next injector. 

Misha_
Misha_ New Reader
12/7/20 5:11 p.m.

In reply to wae :

Hmmm I want to try it but I am scared. I will read more about it! (the atmosphere vent)

I will try to disconnect injectors. I like that. I think one is blowing by. I hope that is what is causing the smell in the cabin. I reckon trying to track this down otherwise will not be pleasant!

Speaking of which, I mentioned I found different thickness crush rings for the injectors somewhere. I just looked for them on 3 sites I normally use and couldn't find them. Because I saw them on rockauto of all places:

I would say that half a mm is quite a considerable difference. I know some people have used honda crush rings because they are thicker (and softer?). They cost something ridiculous to ship (to Canada at least). Like 40 or 60 CAD for a set of 6. I will be ordering a set of these (rockauto ones) anyway in case it is injector blowby. Maybe worth it for wae to use when he hopefully gets a healthy crankshaft back.

Reporting on Vladimir's fix. I did it on Friday. I really want to write it off as a placebo effect because I do not think EGR should make much of a difference, but I swear to god the car is much more responsive from the start now. Like i did the delete in my driveway. Then my friend came and I helped him with something on his car. Then completely forgot about it. Then went for drive to pickup a sixpack after the kids were in bed, and the GL surprised me how quickly she turned out of my street. I only remembered on the way back that I deleted EGR prior and thought that might be related. Anyway. I recommend. Very easy process. If this is all you want done that is.

Finally. I should have the C4 multiplexer on hand this week. I will get BenzNinja's set up. I will report how his service is. I am hoping this will help me figure out my vibrations. And I want the stage 1 tune through him.

Johno100
Johno100 New Reader
12/15/20 12:02 p.m.

Well I`ve got my E350 CDI , 2011 back from the garage  and I`m $1750 U.S down , it had new cam chain , guides , tensionor,   auxiliary belt and tensionor , frown a lot of money to spend on an old car , it gets better , the tech said the fins on the turbo inlet are damaged and it needs a new turbo ! I can get a reconditioned one for around $500.00 exchange , two year warranty.

So a few of questions for you guys ,

  • How could the inlet fins get damaged ?
  • How many hours to change a turbo and do you have to remove the inlet manifolds ?
  • Any other jobs you recommend doing whilst the turbo is off ?

Cheers

 

 

Misha_
Misha_ New Reader
12/18/20 9:47 p.m.

I would guess that dust got into the air system and wore out the fins. Mine are worn too. I'm hoping to hold off on the turbo for a while, then buy the billeted turbo from Garrett. 

I think it is super important to keep air filters fresh so that unnecessary vacuum doesn't suck stuff though possible crevices and extra oil from the PCV Valve.

I don't know how long shop would take. If I was doing just the turbo myself, I would probably take approx 5 hours. I'm not a mechanic though, so they may be a lot faster. 

No need to take off intake manifold for this. But there is a lot of annoying crap in the way. On the GL class I had to remove aluminum shielding and firewall behind other turbo. That was the worst part because there is no room. My buddy did it on R Class, he had uto take wiper assembly off as well.

If you were doing this yourself and had the time, I would encourage to go ahead and clean the intakes, maybe even change the cooler seal since you are there anyway. If you are doing this at the shop, you are probably going to double the time and cost, so may not be worth it.

Misha_
Misha_ New Reader
1/9/21 9:34 a.m.

OMG wae...

I'm trying to find some info on diagnosing injectors on OM642... I come across a thread on MBworld of a guy that has a weird ticking sound. And as I'm reading along I feel like I have seen this disaster unfold before and can predict what is next... Kind of like watching the new Murder on the Orient Express, and having deja vu here and there because you remember the original from like the 80s. Finally I noticed the username and cat is out of the bag!

I relived this whole thread. I'm glad I found this one first and you kept up with updates here :)

Happy new year everyone. Hope it brings everyone success! (with OM642 and other less important things in life)

sirruckus
sirruckus
1/22/21 12:35 p.m.

In reply to wae :

This post of yours, is only the second I've found regarding the rebuilding of a OM642 Bluetec.  I have a similar story, and I'll spare it so you don't have to relieve what I could only expect to be huge frustrations.

I just wanted to share my high level findings as well:

1.) Mercedes engineering is not superior.  Their solutions to obstacles and regulations provides a high count of potential risk events, and of those risk events the quantitative risk is severe (what it will jepordize if the risk occurs).

2.) Some may argue that Mercedes dealerships aren't hardcore mechanics, but rather than technicians.  Similar to wae, my local dealership found metal shavings in the oil and then just quoted $30K to install a new engine. 

3.) The support of literature I've found for Mercedes has been junk - people Hypothosize that this prevents untrained people from working on their vehicles. Well unfortunately when severe cases like this occur, not even their own mechanics may posses the right skill set or confidence to do the work.

4.) Pre-qualify your machine shop - I ended up sending everything to one shop, instead of breaking it up, because they claimed to be able to line hone the block.  My experience cost me 4 months of waiting (rather than a couple weeks at most shops) and about $800 of rework and questionable workmanship for everything else

5.) If you can be patient, order parts from all over the globe. off the top of my head, all the parts I replaced on my engine is running in at around $3,500CAD.  Main vendors I used: rock auto, FCP euro, german parts.ca, ebay, fix parts online.

6.) Consider do a one day subscription to the Mercedes repair literature and save everything you can. I didn't do this.... but understand the quality is way better than what I got from alldatadiy.

7.) The design of this engine is flawed, along with oil maintenance, oil type etc. if you experience this catastrophy, and consider buying a used engine, how do you know that engine doesn't have the same neglect and probably just waiting to arise?  This is why I chose to rebuild my motor.

what I specifically found in mine: front /back thrust washers were chewed up, one oil squirter was stuck open, the first two journals /rods were ok - the rear 4 cooked. Theories could be:

  1. oil squirter stuck open at piston location 1/4 so the remaining components affected by that oil gallery lost pressure.
  2. idled in hot weather for about 20 mins before driving on, this allowed too much diesel to blow past the rings and diluted the oil
  3. was towing a small trailer, gave her a little snot, balooned the torque converter which then pressed the crank up against the thrust washers
  4. had done an oil change about 600km ago.  Previous owner had leased the vehicle, which there are theories those owners neglect maintenance because there is little cosequence.  Previous owner did short trips in vehicle, causing buld up of soot and no DPF burn off.  Gunk broke off and clogged critical orfices.

 

Anyways - I'm still not done... right now I'm putting a new timing chain in, and of course there is no marking on the harmonic balancer so I have to find TDC using a dial indicated, through the injector port in cylinder head.

if anyone else tries to rebuild this motor, and stumbles onto my post - feel free to message me as I have an excel sheet of: steps taken to remove engine, steps taken to disassemble engine, part / price tabulation between vendors.

As much as I would like to say it was enjoyable, it hasn't been but it makes me look forward to building something I can feel honestly more confident in.... a chevy motor, which by the way, should be a walk in the park compared to this.

CLynn85
CLynn85 HalfDork
1/23/21 8:17 a.m.

Wow I just read this entire thread (skipping ahead in places) and I have two takeaways:

1 - You have far more patience than anyone I've ever met

2 - Thanks for reaffirming my fears of ownership of modern German cars.

Misha_
Misha_ New Reader
1/25/21 5:05 p.m.

In reply to sirruckus :

You have no mark on the crankshaft pulley? I do.... Or you have the timing cover off?

sirruckus
sirruckus New Reader
1/27/21 9:19 a.m.

In reply to Misha_ :

There was no factory timing mark on the pulley / harmonic balancer, or it was so faint that the slight surface rusting made it disappear.  Regardless, with a dial gauge on cylinder #1, I was able to find TDC and make my own, in relation to the timing cover mark.

Last night I had installed the camshafts and routing the timing chain. I'm at a critical step where I have to ensure proper timing between: crank, camshafts and balancing shaft.

wae
wae UberDork
1/27/21 12:35 p.m.

My apologies for not having checked in on this thread for a little while!  I dropped the crankshaft off on October 5th and have been in a bit of a holding pattern ever since, with nothing to update.  Until I have the crank back in my hot little hands and can check it out myself, I don't want to exert any additional dollars or effort on der Scheßewagen so other than giving the thing the finger every time I walk past it in the shop, I haven't done anything.

I finally had the time and the thought to call the machine shop and it turns out that the welding is complete!  It still needs to be turned down and all that, but there is forward progress being made.

 

Misha_:  Sorry for tricking you into reading my story a second time!  I originally hoped that I'd find some in-depth expertise there, but while there are a couple very knowledgeable people, for the most part there's not a lot of deep technical help there.  I could find out how much people paid to their local dealer to make problems go away, but not much else.

sirruckus:  Welcome to the support group!  What you're saying about the idling is something I've heard before.  I would frequently just let mine idle for longer periods of time because I grew up with that it was way easier on a diesel to let them idle than to shut them down and start them back up all the time. I don't know if that was never true or if it's unique to der Scheßemotor, but the OM642 apparently does like to dilute the oil when it idles for a while.  I'm telling you, someone found these plans in a bunker that were left behind after the war as a way to get revenge on the Allies.  Between the OM642 and the existence of wheel bolts, the revenge is real.  Do you have access to WIS for all the shop manual stuff?  I picked up a copy from eBay for something like $20 - it runs as a VM on my laptop, but the trick is that you can't let the clock go past 2019....  If you need any particular procedures, I'd be happy to pull them off and get them to you, though.  It might be a giant hunk of Scheß, but it's a pretty well-documented hunk of Scheß.

 

 

Dieseltdi_KY
Dieseltdi_KY
2/23/21 8:41 a.m.

In reply to wae :

Boy this was a long and interesting read.  Thanks for the entertainment and the enlightenment!  Unfortunately for me I developed what I believe to be the precise same noise!  I also drive a 2012 gl350 bluetec. I'm a diesel guy,  and aircraft mechanic, so Its not terribly intimidating to break it down and make repairs.  Funny how lots of our suggested guidance has been "take it to the dealer for a proper diagnosis". My father told me just that,  and I replied "they are simply going to charge me $150 to tell me I must spend $20k." Its a very accurate statement,  they do not troubleshoot these types of problems.  Anyhow,  yet another hell of a coincidence is I love in union ky, but play hockey about .5 miles from many of the places you mentioned off buttermilk.  In fact I played last night!  Anyhow,  I would love to chat sometime.  It sounds to me,  my very first thought hearing the noise was "rod bearing". I purchased this rig from a guy up by Toledo about a year ago.  When I did an oil change I was disheartened by the condition of the long overdue oil that didn't pour from the engine, rather it kinda came out clumpy. That's never a good sign.  This thread is a reminder to me that there is always the problem and the solution,  but patience and diligence will get you there.  I really love the chassis, and hope to be able to enjoy it for years to come,  and that will only be possible if I do what you are in the process of doing! 

Dieseltdi_KY
Dieseltdi_KY New Reader
2/23/21 8:48 a.m.

One other note,  my clock is only sitting at 135,000 miles,  which seems remarkably low to be having engine problems on a diesel. I have owned diesels of most marquis,  and this one is by far the most disappointing,  as I have never seen any catastrophic problems on any diesel engine ever at this low of mileage.  

wae
wae UberDork
2/23/21 12:22 p.m.

In reply to Dieseltdi_KY :

Welcome to the excrement exhibition!

I hear you on the mileage:

Never would I have imagined that a diesel would have spun bearings at this kind of mileage.  I was expecting things like high pressure pumps, timing chains, and injectors - not bearings.  There's a chance that a ticking noise could be an injector hammering -- they're a known weak point of course -- or it could be the timing chain slapping.  But at 135k and chunky oil, if I had to put down money on it, unfortunately I'd have to put my money down on "spun bearing".  I had very large bits of bearing in my oil filter, so you might take a quick peek in there.  If you can get it before it destroys the crankshaft, it's not a too-unusual teardown and rebuild as far as I can tell so far.  I always used to work with Monarch, but when they went under Bluegrass Diesel took things over and Tom moved over there.  His guy over in Ohio somewhere is definitely slow, I just hope he's as good as he is slow.  I don't know if there's any other place in town that can weld up a crank, but if you need that done it might be worth looking around a bit.  Unless you've got plenty of time, of course!

I know exactly the place you play hockey.  What's kind of weird is that I haven't been there in something like three decades, but my daughter went ice skating there for the first time ever on Sunday!  If you want to commiserate or compare notes, I've got the thing tucked away in my shop over in Elsmere; come on by some time.

 

Dieseltdi_KY
Dieseltdi_KY New Reader
2/23/21 2:48 p.m.

I wasn't anticipating your mileage to be so low!  We really are in the same boat.  I've really tried to convince myself that it's not a rod bearing, but after this lengthy read,  it seems almost foolish to hunt down any other lead.  Do you know if the oil pan half can be removed without removal of the cradle/engine? Would be nice to find a way to give the rods a wiggle without a tremendous amount of effort.  

wae
wae UberDork
2/23/21 3:08 p.m.

In reply to Dieseltdi_KY :

I don't think that there is room under the subframe cross-member to be able to move the oil pan out of the way.  I'll check in WIS tonight and take a look in the emptied-out engine bay while I'm over there.

wae
wae UberDork
2/23/21 10:06 p.m.

Yeah, there is way too much crossmember and transfer case in there to be able to drop the pan.

sirruckus
sirruckus New Reader
2/24/21 11:37 a.m.

In reply to wae :

Wow I really appreciate your offer! I could have used some information, had I known you responded to this thread.... I don't receive the typical emails informing me that a reply was posted.

I'm curious to see how you make out with yours! Currently I've got a 'long block' with the exception of the oil pump being installed.  My concern will be:

1.) are the camshafts phased correctly - I checked ten times using the instructions.... but you know how that goes.... all of a sudden you realize its ambiguous and you've interpreted it the wrong way

2.) the bore in the main bearing cap / web at #3 and #4 (rear of engine) is elliptical - poor machine shop workmanship.  No one has a line bore around in my area, so I'm taking a little bit of a gamble! 

Wae - apologies for not ready everything in this thread ( I mean....honestly I started skimming through it) but did you have to resort to some kind of spray arc welding to build up the journals on your crank because they bad enough that 0.0020" off wouldn't suffice? 

likewise if you have any questions, send me a PM and we can chat further somehow. Let me know if your in the market for any engine parts which I might not have used (brand new). 

 

wae
wae UberDork
2/28/21 9:47 a.m.

In reply to sirruckus :

And now it's my turn to apologize for not having seen a new reply until now! 

The camshaft alignment is a real pain, in my opinion.  There are little dots on der schprocketz which are supposed to be lined up with the surface of the head.  I found it very difficult to get all of them lined up exactly right because the alignment is very different depending on where you're holding your head at any given time. 

That little indentation on the sprocket tooth is the timing mark and if my memory is correct, it is at the correct spot in this picture.  I can pull up the procedure from WIS if you need it, but I wound up using a Formica sample chip as a straightedge to determine if the camshaft was lined up correctly.

What are you using for a camshaft hold down tool?  Did you spring for "der Spezialwerkzeug" from M-B or did you make one?  When I'm ready to re-install, I'm going to get a little billet of aluminum and make myself a new set.  I had originally made the special tool out of Trex decking by using a hole saw in the drill press and then cutting it in half, but after about four or five uses it started to crack.

I don't know exactly what process is being used to repair my crank other than "welding it up", which I realize could mean a few different things.  As long as it is taking, we may just be waiting for enough cosmic dust to fall from the sky and bond itself to the steel over the various geological epochs.  When (if?) I get it back, I was going to play twenty questions with Tom and see what I can find out.

Until that crankshaft is back in my possession, I wasn't going to go and buy up anything, but if you've got some leftovers, maybe it makes sense to start the gathering process.  I'll shoot you a note and maybe we can work up a deal!

ameli0rate
ameli0rate
2/28/21 8:21 p.m.

Out of curiosity, an oil change analysis would have answered the questions at the early stages, right?

Hear knock, analyze oil, see copper, lead and tin elevated, and then suspect bearing damage pretty early on?

wae
wae UberDork
3/1/21 6:38 a.m.

In reply to ameli0rate :

More than likely, yes.  But in my case, it went from running and sounding fine to Gnarly Tick O' Death like a switch.  And while an oil analysis would have found metals in the oil, my uncalibrated Mk I Eyeball was able to see the chunks of metal that had gathered in the filter.

What I don't know is how long the bearing took to spin.  Would an UOA have identified elevated levels of bearing material before I bought it and put 30kish miles on it?  Would it have picked that out at the oil change immediately preceding the Bavarian Borking?  And if it did identify that the bearing was wearing out, I think I would have been in the same place with no recourse but pulling the motor and rebuilding it.  Granted, I might have been able to save the crankshaft, but at this point it almost seems like a rounding error.

wae
wae UberDork
3/10/21 1:05 p.m.

While unloading the Excursion from the rollback at the shop this afternoon I got the call from Tom!  The crankshaft is ready to be picked up!

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