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Stang_guy03
Stang_guy03 New Reader
10/14/14 7:46 p.m.

In reply to jstein77:

Actually it would be easier just to buy a used V6 Mustang that was a manual vs converting mine. I can pick up a decent V6 for 1k to 2k. But thanks for the input and thought.

chrispy
chrispy HalfDork
10/15/14 8:09 a.m.

To back up what Trucke said, one of our fastest drivers competes in HS in a 1990 something Protege. He has done 100s of events in the car changing only shocks and tires (mostly competeing on street tires too). Familiarity brings speed. A very good option, that hasn't been mentioned, is an Evo School or similar "professional" autox school. You'll likely pick up more speed for $200 in one of those classes than you will in sticky tires.

pinchvalve
pinchvalve GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/15/14 8:26 a.m.

You can put a lot of work into any car and get it to be competitive, but unless you just really want to be different, why? Starting with a car that has some of the basics covered (manual, good suspension design, strong engine) allows you to work on the driver and slowly modify from there. Even if you have the top dog in one class, that only lasts until a new model comes out or the classes shift. You will want to start modifying eventually, and with your current ride you will max out it's potential pretty quickly.

Harvey
Harvey GRM+ Memberand Reader
10/15/14 8:49 a.m.
Stang_guy03 wrote: In reply to Dusterbd13: I now seat time is a must to get faster, but my little hotrod is at it's limit. One of the guys I race with has the exact same car with tires, suspion mods, a tune on the engine and 5yrs worth of experience. I'm only about 3 seconds off his times with no mods. My little Mustang just can't keep up with the newer cars in my class.

3 seconds is a huge amount of time in autocross and most of that is down to his experience. I mean, if he is running rcomps and you are running all seasons I can see it being down to tires, but the rest of the mods only give small time advantages and only if you know what you are doing.

What tires do you run as compared to him?

You really should just get better at driving before you start blowing money on a different car IMO.

Stang_guy03
Stang_guy03 New Reader
10/15/14 3:11 p.m.

Well to answer a few more questions here I go.

Harvey - I was running a medium lvl A/S radial in 225/55/16 with the only mod being KYB struts and shocks. The other car started as the same base car as mine with the following mods, pan hard bar, sway bar, relocated upper control arms, bilstein Struts & Shocks, all urathane bushings, brakes, engine tune and 255/45/17 Nitto NT05.

Chrispy - An EVO school or two is on the agenda next spring. Just a little back info, I've been to several driving schools way in the past. Just not geared directly towards SOLOing, more towards perforamce driving in general.

Finally is the car. I love this body style Mustang. That is probably my main motivation sticking with this car or at least body style. I know the car's potential, but I also know it's limits. There only 2 classes this car would ever be competive in, that being CP or CAM. The mods required to reach it's potential would drive it out of everything else. Even if I started with a V8 SN95.

I'm not opposed to buying a different car, but I want a car that can grow with me. Those are some what limited, Miata being one that seems to grow and grow.

Harvey
Harvey GRM+ Memberand Reader
10/16/14 10:01 a.m.

Then the tires are most of the difference in time between the other guy and you. The rest of the mods probably add up to a tenth or two with a good driver and given that it likely puts him into some sort of street prepared or better class he still isn't competitive.

What I see is that most people follow the crowd into particular competitive cars and some people make their cars competitive in a class despite adversity. The latter doesn't happen too often, it's a lot easier to follow the crowd.

The_Jed
The_Jed UltraDork
10/16/14 10:24 a.m.

Can you run subframe connectors and stay in the same class as your buddy?

If I were to campaign a '79 - '04 Mustang I would consider subframe connectors and a panhard bar necessities.

Stang_guy03
Stang_guy03 New Reader
10/16/14 9:43 p.m.
The_Jed wrote: Can you run subframe connectors and stay in the same class as your buddy? If I were to campaign a '79 - '04 Mustang I would consider subframe connectors and a panhard bar necessities.

Yes bolt in only. He has done most of the mods allowed in STX and the car still isn't competive for the most part. I can't see throwing money at this car with out continueing my preSOLO plans of doing the suspenion and then a Coyote swap. The biggest liabilty for the car is the engine! Doing this would make the car competive in CP or CAM when the driver catches up to it's potential.

Stang_guy03
Stang_guy03 New Reader
10/16/14 9:47 p.m.
Harvey wrote: Then the tires are most of the difference in time between the other guy and you. The rest of the mods probably add up to a tenth or two with a good driver and given that it likely puts him into some sort of street prepared or better class he still isn't competitive. What I see is that most people follow the crowd into particular competitive cars and some people make their cars competitive in a class despite adversity. The latter doesn't happen too often, it's a lot easier to follow the crowd.

Harvey I'm not a crowd follower, but man nobody seems to consider my little grey racer as a long term investment. As I stated in another post my preSOLO plans for the car was to do the suspenion then a Coyote swap in the future. I'm using this post as a sounding board trying to organise my direction with my desire.

The_Jed
The_Jed UltraDork
10/16/14 11:46 p.m.

Have you considered instigating a rivalry with your friend until you find a better car?

I'll bet you could find some 17 x 9 cobra r knockoffs, slap on some sticky 265 width tires and close that 3 second gap, maybe even beat him!

Matt B
Matt B SuperDork
10/17/14 9:15 a.m.
Stang_guy03 wrote: Harvey I'm not a crowd follower, but man nobody seems to consider my little grey racer as a long term investment.

Well, because at-best it isn't money-wise, and at-worst it probably isn't going to be competitive in whatever mod class you'd be thrown in. Swapping in a coyote engine is going to entail dumping a bunch of money into a car that will never be worth that much even with the swap and it'll still be saddled with suspension geometry inferior to newer mustangs. Of course you could fix the suspension geometry once you're in a mod class, but I'm pretty sure that isn't exactly cheap either.

I have no doubt you'd end up with a car that's fun to drive and plenty fast by normal car standards, but I just wouldn't expect it to be a smart investment for autox or your bank account.

Apologies if that sounds harsh, but it's just the reality of the way the SCCA classing works. If it was more like the NASA time trial points system it might be a different story.

If you want to stick with the S95, any reason you wouldn't just go for a manual GT or Cobra? Where are they classed?

Apexcarver
Apexcarver PowerDork
10/17/14 9:19 a.m.
The_Jed wrote: Have you considered instigating a rivalry with your friend until you find a better car? I'll bet you could find some 17 x 10.5 cobra r knockoffs, slap on some sticky 315 width tires and close that 3 second gap, maybe even beat him!

Corrected that for you. Well, with careful selection of rim backspacing and a smidge of fender rolling that is...

BTW, why run 265 on a 17x9, native size is 275/40/17 (of which there arent any good 200+ TW options right now)

The_Jed
The_Jed UltraDork
10/17/14 7:34 p.m.

I did a quick search that turned up a maximum wheel width of 9" and a maximum tire width of 265 for stx.

Probably outdated info.

Just like I'm pretty sure my Mark VII would feed from f-stock (street) into stx but I'm not 100% sure.

The_Jed
The_Jed UltraDork
10/17/14 7:44 p.m.

In reply to Apexcarver:

Holy cow, Kenny is a beast!

Stang_guy03
Stang_guy03 New Reader
10/17/14 7:55 p.m.

OKAY folks! The car is not competive in any class you care to put it in with the engine that is in it! That's why as I have stated before to keep this car it will require basicaly a ground up suspenion rebuild and engine swap. This will place the car in CP or CAM. And as a side note even a V8 SN95 would require a serious suspenion rebuild/mods to be competive.

I was wanting to get some ideas for possiable cars to look at as a change, but nobody has gone down that road. I don't really want to stay in a stock class any how. I want the room to modify a car to the limit if I so choose.

As for my skills they will improve but I'm not as concerned about that as others seem to be. I'm better and faster now than I was back in March. Better skills will come in time.

Apexcarver
Apexcarver PowerDork
10/17/14 8:24 p.m.

So, whats your budget? (initial build and consumables)

Do you want it on the street, of is this a trailer job.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP72V4mgKl4
SM GTR sure looks like fun! (but I heard something about blowing front diffs)

STF = Many options Mazda 2/3 or a Mini, maybe a yaris?
STS = 89 civic si / early miata / 88-91 CRX Si
STX = FRS/BRZ
STR = 2008 S2000 CR
STU = Subaru STI / EVO IX / 350Z (apparently the C5 corvette (might be non-z06 only) is landing here?)

Any of those appeal? After that you get into territory where most of your serious competition will be trailered when you go full retard (national level)

Apexcarver
Apexcarver PowerDork
10/17/14 8:26 p.m.

Do some reading here http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/assets/results/2014%20Tire%20Rack%20Solo%20Nationals%20Final1.pdf and see what you like thats fast in a class that's attainable for you. Just remember that SM and prepared cars are nuts and are almost always trailered and SP cars are usually trailered (on national scene).

Apexcarver
Apexcarver PowerDork
10/17/14 8:41 p.m.

You could manage a swap within the rules for ESP, in face you could replicate a 95 or 00 cobra R if you can find the correct engine parts (scavenger hunt!) But like I said, not sure about longevity of being competitive.

Mr_Clutch42
Mr_Clutch42 Dork
10/18/14 12:12 p.m.

A couple of other competitive cars that don't break the bank (initially) are:

STX- RX-8, BMW 3-Series non-M, Acura Integra Type R, Subaru Impreza WRX

STR- Toyota MR2 Spyder

CSP- Miata

DSP- RX-8, BMW 3-Series non-M

ESP- Impreza WRX, Trans-Am/Camaro Z28, Mustang GT, Mustang Boss 302*, Eagle Talon TSi

FSP- Volkswagen Rabbit, Volkswagen Scirocco, Mazda 323

asterisk- will break the bank initially

The cheapest route to a fast car is to stay in a stock class (I know, you don't want to hear that.) A couple of national level drivers really impressed me in their stock cars earlier this season (and changed my autocross plans significantly).

Stang_guy03
Stang_guy03 New Reader
10/18/14 6:52 p.m.

Thx Apexcarver and Mr_Clutch42, your replies is some of what I'm looking for. I'm an info junky and it helps me process to a decision by reading all of this. Extra thanks Apexcarver for saving me time hunting down final results from nationals. I just hadn't got around to it.

All the classes you guys listed ST or SP have a limiting point for mods. I don't want that limiting point. That is why I'm focusing towards a Prepared or CAM car to run. Another part of this is money. I don't want to go out and spend a small fortune buying a car I want to beat on (* option). I have no payment for what I have and I guess that's why I'm a little hung up on a Mustang. SN95s are very affordable to buy in V8 form as a starting point for a build and my long time experience with the SN95s means I don't have to relearn how to work on the car or start over sourcing parts.

To answer one question I think you both asked. Ultimately I will trailer my car, but that is also part of the process and time line. I understand and am fully aware if I go gonzo with my Mustang for CP or CAM I'm looking at trailering it in the long of it. But there is nothing that says I can't keep it streetable to a point for local fun.

So I guess I dare to go my own route or follow the pack and buy the flavor of the class? In the end that is the question to be answered right?

BIG THANKS TO ALL THOSE WHO HAVE POSTED HERE!!!!

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