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bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
10/27/20 7:13 a.m.

In reply to sleepyhead the buffalo :

You're sorta right. In the begining......

Long long ago in the mid 90's Hyundai realized Korean made mitsubishi engines wasn't going to cut it. So they developed their first engine, the Alpha. 1.5L SOHC, Cast iron closed deck block, aluminim head, 3 valves per cylinder. Made a whopping 90hp and similar torque. This engine is indestrictible. In 2001 they added a second cam to the Alpha, bumped it to 1.6L and made 110hp. This engine is still next to indestructible. 

Hyundai's second engine, the Beta (sense the theme yet?), was always a DOHC, cast iron block closed deck, aluminum head 10:1 compression engine. Made 138hp, 135 tq. This engine met SULEV standards without EGR. Great engine. Takes boost well. Also solid performer. 1.8L in 96-98, 2.0 99-2009

Their first V6 was the Delta. It started life as a 2.5L and was punched out to 2.7L by 2001 in the sonata and sante fe. IT's an all aluminum DOHC V6 that isn't really that good. It's durable, and with the right modifications can make 180whp but needs boost to go beyond.

Their second engine was the Sigma. 3.5L Cast iron block, aluminum head. It was their truck/van engine from Korea. It's a turd. 190hp when Honda was pushing 270 out of smaller displacement. Up to this point all their engines are timing belt. One cam pulley external with the second cam run off a chain bathed in oil on the opposite end. Simple, easy and not hard to change just short (60k mile) intervals.

In 2006 they released a two-fer with new designs. The first was a cooperation with Chryco and Mitsu to develop the "world engine", Hyundai's version was the theta (and later Theta II). This was their first DOHC Timing chain engine. They came in 2.0 and 2.4 (later to be offered in other sizes overseas) and are similar in design to the mitsu 4B11. These are great engines IF YOU CHANGE THE DAMN OIL. The 2.4 is a torque monster. I have my old dyno chart floating around here somewhere, but it's making 140wtq at 2k rpms and carries that past 6k rpms with a perfetly linear peak at 4k. It's an engine that will rev, but you don't have to. These were MPFI until the 2011 Sonata where they went to GDI and then GDI-T turbo models making 270hp. 

The second engine may be their best design to date. The Lambda V6, another timing chain design, DOHC all aluminum block/head clean sheet design. Started with the 3.3L V6 in the 06 Sonata and was later offered in 3.5 and 3.8 eventually leading to the TT 3.3 in the Stinger GT and G70.Quite possibly the best sound V6 of modern times IMO.

The Nu engines, 1.8 and 2.0L were made to replace the Beta. These were offered in both MPFI And GDI ranging from 138hp to 172. Decent and economical the newest versions are running a modified Atkinson cycle to boost economy and efficiency. There are some questions as to their durability but its not uncommon to see these over 200k miles.

The gamma is the baby engine that replaced the Alpha. Another timing chain engine with GDI, these little critters are used in the Veloster, accent and Rio as well as other mini-utes like the Niro and things. Makes 138hp NA, 201 with the turbo. All aluminum compact and relatively powerful for it's size. 

Lastly is the Tau. That's their DOHC V8 that ranges in size from 4.6-5.0L. Came in the Genesis sedan. Sound awesome, makes 400hp and came only RWD options for a while. 

So, the breakdown:

Alpha 1.5/1.6 95-2009 equivalent to the D17 Honda but less revs.

Beta 1.8-2.0 96-2009 slots between the D17 and B18 Honda but with more torque and less revs. 

Delta 2.5/2.7 98-2007 J30 equivalent but fuel hungry and gutless in comparison.

Theta/Theta II  09-current close to the K-series Honda but with torque. And turbo.

Lambda 06-current Better than the J-series honda in every respect. Probably person opinion but it's a great motor.

Nu 10-current like the R-honda engine. It's OK, does its job and rolls on. Efficient and common.

Gamma 10-current. cute little motor. Similar to the Honda L15 but not sucky. 

Tau 2007-current. Honda is too chicken to make this. 

So hyundai/Kia engines are typically more torquey and less rev-happy than their honda counterparts. 

Professor_Brap (Forum Supporter)
Professor_Brap (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
10/27/20 8:18 a.m.

I'm really liking the sounds of beta and theta motors. I have owned cars with the "world engine" and really liked them. 

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
10/27/20 8:34 a.m.

In reply to Professor_Brap (Forum Supporter) :

The Beta has two flaws from the factory. The cam profiles have so much overlap to keep exhaust gases in the combustion chamber that they inhibit flow. Full bolt ons (intake, header, exhaust t/b) will net maybe 10whp total on a good day and generous dyno.Cams help as well as tuning. Because of this they take boost really well but the high static compression ratio means you don't get much (10:1). Alpine offered a supercharger kit for them back in the day. They sounded awesome and would make about 180whp. 

The Theta is good out of the box. Just don't try to wind it out like a K-series. 

Professor_Brap (Forum Supporter)
Professor_Brap (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
10/27/20 9:04 a.m.

In reply to bobzilla :

For a year around daily with a manual and some spirited driving what do you recommend. 

Peabody
Peabody UltimaDork
10/27/20 9:23 a.m.

The gamma is the baby engine that replaced the Alpha. Another timing chain engine with GDI, these little critters are used in the Veloster, accent and Rio as well as other mini-utes like the Niro and things. Makes 138hp NA, 201 with the turbo. All aluminum compact and relatively powerful for it's size.

Forte as well.

I'm very happy with mine so far.

201 HP is at low boost, and while the aftermarket is not big, there is some support and potential.  I did a lot of research before I bought this car and while there are a pile of these 1.6's on the road they don't seem to be plagued with the problems of the other Hyundai/Kia engines of the era.

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
10/27/20 10:20 a.m.
Professor_Brap (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to bobzilla :

For a year around daily with a manual and some spirited driving what do you recommend. 

The biggest problem is to get a manual its either a SX/GT with all options or stripper base model without cruise control. I hate that. If you can look past the manual requirement any of the 2.0Nu Forte/Elantra offerings are really good. That's bordering current platform. For a cheaper alternative, the Forte SX, Forte5 SX and Kou SX in the 2010-2013 era would make (and do) a great daily that will keep you happy. Stay 2011 and newer if you want the streaming bluetooth option. 

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
10/27/20 10:22 a.m.

In reply to Peabody :

240whp seems to be the safe long term limit from what I've seen. But even then, that's 150hp/liter at the wheels.

barefootskater (Shaun)
barefootskater (Shaun) UberDork
10/27/20 12:41 p.m.

I like it. If the insurance company is VERY nice to me, maybe. Not entirely sure I want to drive home across country again so soon...

Professor_Brap (Forum Supporter)
Professor_Brap (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
10/27/20 2:08 p.m.
bobzilla said:
Professor_Brap (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to bobzilla :

For a year around daily with a manual and some spirited driving what do you recommend. 

The biggest problem is to get a manual its either a SX/GT with all options or stripper base model without cruise control. I hate that. If you can look past the manual requirement any of the 2.0Nu Forte/Elantra offerings are really good. That's bordering current platform. For a cheaper alternative, the Forte SX, Forte5 SX and Kou SX in the 2010-2013 era would make (and do) a great daily that will keep you happy. Stay 2011 and newer if you want the streaming bluetooth option. 

That is kinda fustrating, bluetooth would be nice. Can you retrofit cruise control in like you can older cars? I think shopping for a 11+ is what I will have to do. 

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
10/27/20 2:25 p.m.
barefootskater (Shaun) said:

I like it. If the insurance company is VERY nice to me, maybe. Not entirely sure I want to drive home across country again so soon...

Yeah this car is gone. its now just a "how much useless trivia does Bob know about Korean junk?" thread. 

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
10/27/20 2:26 p.m.

In reply to Professor_Brap (Forum Supporter) :

I don't know. I mean, they're all TBW, and the steering wheel has all the switches so it *should* just be a matter or telling the BCM that you have cruise control and do your damn job. But it's Korean so probably more complicated than that

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