CrustyRedXpress
CrustyRedXpress HalfDork
9/17/21 3:36 p.m.

Lots of new parts-looks like he put it back together and didn't do the timing correctly. 

Offer him 10 because we both know he bent half those valves when trying to start the engine. 

https://rennlist.com/forums/market/1268623

 

 

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/17/21 4:26 p.m.

Gah. I'm not clicking that link. I'm not.

Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter)
Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
9/17/21 6:03 p.m.

Unless you have a known good engine on hand, run away.

CrustyRedXpress
CrustyRedXpress HalfDork
9/17/21 8:25 p.m.

In reply to Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter) :

The cheapest complete DIY m96 engine rebuild I saw was about 7k. IIRC that includes refreshed heads (from the same vendor this guy used) and re-lining the cylinders with Nickasil. 

15k for this roller plus 7k is still a 22k 911 with a reliable engine.

 

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
9/17/21 10:57 p.m.

A real M96 rebuilt is a 15-25k affair.  I wouldn't touch a 7k rebuild with a 20 foot pole.

7k for any 996 roller is on the very high end too. 

Unless you want a white 996 with this body kit on it, run away. 

CrustyRedXpress
CrustyRedXpress HalfDork
9/18/21 9:03 p.m.

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

LN Engineering offers a m96 rebuild service for 21k. I believe they use some of Jake Raby's IP and methods. 

Here is the 7k rebuild thread: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/1144800-new-to-me-996-with-coolant-intermix-issue.html

And here is the spreadsheet where the guy tracks costs: https://www.ez-bizwebs.com/3.4/images/Spreadsheet/Porsche996_EngineRebuild2.pdf 

If you see something missing from what the guy did, I'm all ears. Both heads were sent off to Hoffman (m96 head specialist) for service-one had to be welded. The guy also scored a case with nickies for 2k instead of buying one new from LN for 5.3k. Some of the parts he didn't need were sold off as well.

If you see 996 rollers for cheaper than 7k please post them =)

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
9/20/21 9:03 a.m.

Yes 21k for a full rebuild is about right.  I've priced it out and it's 10-15k in parts depending on choices.

I also looked at the 7k build and the 3k discount on the nickies was key there.  A new shortblock from Porsche is $8k.  
 

For the record, I went to one of Jakes last in person M96 classes.  I met Mr. Hoffman, Charles, etc.  It was great.  I have photos too.

The $7k build referenced above relies on a 3k discount and doesn't replace lots of things I would replace.  I'd also spend more ensuring I had genuine Porsche parts for lots of things instead of trusting eBay.  
 

And since an M96 rebuild would be a $15k plus time and effort deal for me, I could never pay 7k for a roller.  What if the trans has a bad synchro?  What if it needs axles, suspension or all new coolant hoses?  You'd be way in the hole on this deal.  I'd pay $7k for a roller with the factory aero kit and LSD.  This roller is worth $5k tops to me.  Boxster rollers are $3k cars in awesome condition.  
 

If you really want a great 996.  Buy a sweet roller with lots of great options, then DMS end it to Jake along with $30k.  Don't expect to flip it for a profit, but that will be the best 996 you will get.  

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/20/21 10:40 a.m.

yes yes yes M96 blah blah blah. 

How much is the LS swap kit?

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/20/21 10:43 a.m.

In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :

oh, about 7-12k, depending on your level of electronics comfort. Then add a $200 junkyard motor? devil

http://www.renegadehybrids.com/996/LS-1.html

 

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
9/20/21 9:44 p.m.
Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :

oh, about 7-12k, depending on your level of electronics comfort. Then add a $200 junkyard motor? devil

http://www.renegadehybrids.com/996/LS-1.html

 

If you believe that, I have some bridges that might interest you for a great price. 

docwyte
docwyte PowerDork
9/21/21 8:42 a.m.

I know I've ranted about it before but everyone loves to say "Just LS swap it!"  Like it's the cheaper, easier way to go.  It's not.  If you're LS swapping a race car, yeah, sure.  If you're LS swapping a street car and you want the dash to work, AC to work, cruise control to work, fans to work, etc, etc, etc?  Yeah, you're going to spend a lot of time, effort and money, much more than you expect and usually as much, if not more than just replacing/rebuilding the factory motor.

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/21/21 9:10 a.m.

Sure, just like anything else you can do work yourself or you can spend money for someone else to do it. Sorta like doing a 7k rebuild vs paying for an off the shelf 21k rebuild. 

MY biggest trouble with motor swaps is that it can change the entire character of the car. Would the LS 911 still drive and feel like a 911? Or would it feel like a corvette? Maybe something worse? Yes it would probably be faster in a straight line. "Better" car? I can't answer that. 

If I happened to have a blowed up 911 however, I'd be looking pretty darn hard at the swap options because the 21k is eye watering, even if it is the least amount of work. 

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
9/21/21 3:16 p.m.

21k is steep and there is no such thing a 7k M96 rebuild even with the 3k deal.  Tools alone will cost more than you'd think.  I'm talking timing tool, IMSB replacement, rear main seat seating tool, and an engine cradle to do it.  
 

But what do I know.  LS swap the world.  

CrustyRedXpress
CrustyRedXpress HalfDork
9/21/21 3:23 p.m.

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

That's awesome that you had a chance to attend one of Jake's classes. If you don't mind me asking, did you actually rebuild one of these after, and if not, what was the draw to the class? I looked at it when I was looking at 996's years ago and thought it was just a flat out cool experience.

Also, do you think his DVDs are an OK substitute? I.E would a guy who can successfully rebuild a Honda 4 cylinder be able to rebuild the m96 by relying on the DVD?

 

Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter)
Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
9/21/21 3:59 p.m.
Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:

Sure, just like anything else you can do work yourself or you can spend money for someone else to do it. Sorta like doing a 7k rebuild vs paying for an off the shelf 21k rebuild. 

MY biggest trouble with motor swaps is that it can change the entire character of the car. Would the LS 911 still drive and feel like a 911? Or would it feel like a corvette? Maybe something worse? Yes it would probably be faster in a straight line. "Better" car? I can't answer that. 

I don't know if it would be better or worse, but it's not going to drive like a Corvette. It's still rear engine.

dave215
dave215 New Reader
9/21/21 4:37 p.m.

I have a 1999 996 /ls swap .All in about $8k .A/C - dash-cruise control etc all work .Did it 6 years ago and has been a reliable and fun driver .As  swaps go -this is one of the easier ones -  the 98 and 99 models were analog gauges and cable throttle body which are easy to adapt . I had a c5 fixed roof and can assure that it does not drive like a corvette .

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
9/22/21 12:32 a.m.
CrustyRedXpress said:

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

That's awesome that you had a chance to attend one of Jake's classes. If you don't mind me asking, did you actually rebuild one of these after, and if not, what was the draw to the class? I looked at it when I was looking at 996's years ago and thought it was just a flat out cool experience.

Also, do you think his DVDs are an OK substitute? I.E would a guy who can successfully rebuild a Honda 4 cylinder be able to rebuild the m96 by relying on the DVD?

 

Yes you could rebuild one using the DVDs.  It's been done already.  The only thing would be practicing to get the circlips into the pistons to hold the piston pins.  We didn't do a full rebuild in the class.  We did a full tear down and learned how to time these engines and do the piston install on practice engines.  It's not that hard.  It's more like paying attention to all the details, keeping things super clean and verify and perform (whether that is torque something or inserting the piston circlips).  We did an assembly as a group on two engines for the class.  We also did a teardown.  As a result with multiple students per engine you don't get to do it all.  Everyone got the chance to time an engine and install pistons though. 

I've rebuilt a lot of small block Fords and a few 4 cylinders and been around lots of Nascar style engines.  An M96 just has more details to check and be careful about.  Jake covers it all in the videos. 

If I ever end up in a roller situation I'm probably going to use a Porsche shortblock with the newer large style M97 IMS bearing and work from there.  I do have an IMS solution that I need to get installed on my Boxster this winter. 

 

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