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Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/16/21 4:17 p.m.

In reply to Antihero (Forum Supporter) :

Actually, the van is pretty much a unicorn made out of unobtainium.  GM stopped doing them in 2014.  The overlander crew drools over them.  They use a BW AWD transfer case that shares the same case as the 4WD trucks.  Converting them to real 4wd is about a $350 afternoon project if you have the shifter figured out.  Finding one that is 135" WB, both sides with doors, under 300k miles, not boring white, with options other than vinyl seats and rubber floors, and not rusted to insanity makes this one (without the skid) a remarkably rare piece.  In fact, I have never seen this combo of options before.

Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter)
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/16/21 4:19 p.m.

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

I seriously think you should get down there ASAP & buy the thing. Based on the other ones you've found even paying extra for the cleaning rig still makes it a fair price. 

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/16/21 4:21 p.m.
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

I seriously think you should get down there ASAP & buy the thing. Based on the other ones you've found even paying extra for the cleaning rig still makes it a fair price. 

Not a bad plan.  I'll wait at least until Secretariata checks to see if the words and pictures are telling the truth, and to see what that code is.

Antihero (Forum Supporter)
Antihero (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
1/16/21 4:46 p.m.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Antihero (Forum Supporter) :

Actually, the van is pretty much a unicorn made out of unobtainium.  GM stopped doing them in 2014.  The overlander crew drools over them.  They use a BW AWD transfer case that shares the same case as the 4WD trucks.  Converting them to real 4wd is about a $350 afternoon project if you have the shifter figured out.  Finding one that is 135" WB, both sides with doors, under 300k miles, not boring white, with options other than vinyl seats and rubber floors, and not rusted to insanity makes this one (without the skid) a remarkably rare piece.  In fact, I have never seen this combo of options befosre.

I don't disagree, I see the value there. My point is most people don't. There isn't thousands of people waiting in line for it.

 

If it's worth 10k to you now, just go buy it tonight and do whatever is needed to make it happen. I just think that at this moment you are bidding against yourself

 

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/18/21 11:15 a.m.

Good news.  The P-code is for the evap solenoid.  P0446.

Secretariata sent me a zillion photos and did a thorough inspection.

Bad news.  It has more rust than my 94 Mazda.  That isn't a terrible thing, but one of the big reasons I wanted a southern vehicle was to avoid the rust.  I mean, whatever I buy is going to rust when I bring it to PA so I'm trying to tell myself to shut up and buy the damn thing.

Off to digest and come up with an offer.

 

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
1/18/21 11:29 a.m.

He wont be able to sell that van to someone in Carolina.  They'll freak over the rust hole. 

What would you pay for a rwd van of similar originating from PA (because this is closer to a PA van)? 

Add in a value for the awd (maybe $1k.)  

You will have expenses due to the travel to go get the van but you'll just have to eat that as a cost of doing business (time, gas and 1 night hotel for $100)  

 

I recommend a one way car rental.  Drive down and see the car.  If good enough, pay for the van.  If not good enough, drive the rental car back.  A one way rental costs more but if you realize you'll be returning the car, call the rental company and see if you can get it re-rated as a local rental.  As an example a one way might be $100 per day but a local would be $45 per day and the two days of "local" will cost about the same as one way.  

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/18/21 11:37 a.m.

Dad agreed to drive down with me, so fortunately I have a way to get it now.  Hooray for retired parents with nothing better to do.

Let me find some examples of similar PA vans....

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/18/21 11:53 a.m.

2006 with 96k for $11,000 asking and not AWD.  (they're smoking crack at that price)

2007 Cargo with 106k, not AWD for $7900

2013 Cargo, not AWD, 106k for $18,500  Jinkys

2012 cargo WITH awd and 307k for $9500

2005 cargo with 285k and AWD for $3900  .... and either he's lying about the AWD or the engine.  He claims its the 4.3V6, but all Express/Savannah AWD vans were 5.3L

So... anywhere from $3900 to $18,500.  That doesn't narrow it down much.

Antihero (Forum Supporter)
Antihero (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
1/18/21 12:09 p.m.

The rust hole isnt good but I wouldn't write it off.

 

Basically though I think this shows that you are really bidding against yourself here. 

Antihero (Forum Supporter)
Antihero (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
1/18/21 12:13 p.m.

I will say that rust free is a better thing but my Rampage is rusty and I'm ok with it because they ALL are rusty and it's hard to repair a rampage that I don't have vs repairing rust on a rampage that I do have

matthewmcl (Forum Supporter)
matthewmcl (Forum Supporter) HalfDork
1/18/21 12:14 p.m.

Just because you have all the cash does not mean you have to pull it all out of your pocket. Go pick it up. Cash under the nose is harder to turn down than an offer from far away.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/18/21 12:31 p.m.
Antihero (Forum Supporter) said:

The rust hole isnt good but I wouldn't write it off.

 

Basically though I think this shows that you are really bidding against yourself here. 

Every time you shop for a vehicle, you're bidding against yourself.  Is it the right vehicle at the right price is always the debate.

Legally (but not in reality) that rust hole would fail PA safety inspection.  Do I want to start with a vehicle that is that rusted?  That's the real bidding going on in my brain.  I told him I'm going to digest things and call him later.  I already told him that I wanted a southern vehicle to avoid the rust, so I am genuinely disappointed that there is that much.  I'll convey my disappointment and tell him to give me a price that I can't say no to.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/18/21 12:34 p.m.
Antihero (Forum Supporter) said:

The rust hole isnt good but I wouldn't write it off.

He confessed that the previous owner was a beach-dweller.  I have all kinds of experience with salty roads, but I don't know what salt air does.  I'm more concerned about what's behind that rocker panel.

Antihero (Forum Supporter)
Antihero (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
1/18/21 12:55 p.m.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:
Antihero (Forum Supporter) said:

The rust hole isnt good but I wouldn't write it off.

 

Basically though I think this shows that you are really bidding against yourself here. 

Every time you shop for a vehicle, you're bidding against yourself.  Is it the right vehicle at the right price is always the debate.

Legally (but not in reality) that rust hole would fail PA safety inspection.  Do I want to start with a vehicle that is that rusted?  That's the real bidding going on in my brain.  I told him I'm going to digest things and call him later.  I already told him that I wanted a southern vehicle to avoid the rust, so I am genuinely disappointed that there is that much.  I'll convey my disappointment and tell him to give me a price that I can't say no to.

I didn't consider inspection since we don't have it here, very valid point. I do see what you are saying about rust you can't see too.

 

My point about bidding against yourself goes both ways, I've lost deals on stuff because I wanted a great deal ( I saw a Remington 51 in 32acp in ok shape for a bit more than I thought it would go for. Years later it's worth about 4 times what it was listed for and 32s are very rare). And I've bought things that I thought I paid too much for but ended up worth tons more ( Peavey f800b that I thought I over paid for because it had an issue. $250 is what I had into it. I sold it to buy my challenge Caprice).

 

If it's that rare, and you want it that much the price you should pay might be " what he's willing to sell it for$ rather than " this is fair market value". Make sense?

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/18/21 12:58 p.m.

Makes sense.

I'll call him and see what happens.

03Panther
03Panther SuperDork
1/18/21 1:17 p.m.

Being a south easterner, a beach vehicle and a great white north vehicle are about the same. Just easier to pass up a rusty one down here. If you decide to deal with the rust, it gives you better negotiating room... As was mentioned, nobody else is going the buy that van from him. Rare options, yes; but super small market. 99% of the people that will look at his ad, don't know the difference in 4wd, and awd. 

Dealing with the rust is a decision you'll have to make on your own. But you can definitely negotiate hard ball!

03Panther
03Panther SuperDork
1/18/21 1:20 p.m.

https://dothan.craigslist.org/ctd/d/enterprise-1996-chevrolet-express/7263776945.html

Not quite what you are looking for, and another small market, but I couldn't help but think of ya...

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/18/21 5:43 p.m.

Had a nice, candid conversation with the seller.  I talked about the disappointment with the rust and he agreed (and apologized for not including it in the ad).  I made a semi-lowball offer and he didn't jump on it.  He said he has three more people coming to look at it, but I have a feeling they'll see the crusty rockers and bail... or they'll lowball him too.  I left it with a final offer of $X.  He said he would entertain offers from these other people, but he did say that if they keep offering him the same $X that I did, he would sell to me and even personally drive it up to PA if I wanted.  Nice guy, and I get a genuine good feeling about taking him at his word.

As you can probably tell, I was a bit on the fence, so now it's in gravity's hands.  If it falls on my side of the fence, great.  If it doesn't, I'll just keep looking.

 

Placemotorsports
Placemotorsports HalfDork
1/19/21 7:18 a.m.
Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/19/21 11:12 a.m.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

Had a nice, candid conversation with the seller.  I talked about the disappointment with the rust and he agreed (and apologized for not including it in the ad).  I made a semi-lowball offer and he didn't jump on it.  He said he has three more people coming to look at it, but I have a feeling they'll see the crusty rockers and bail... or they'll lowball him too.  I left it with a final offer of $X.  He said he would entertain offers from these other people, but he did say that if they keep offering him the same $X that I did, he would sell to me and even personally drive it up to PA if I wanted.  Nice guy, and I get a genuine good feeling about taking him at his word.

As you can probably tell, I was a bit on the fence, so now it's in gravity's hands.  If it falls on my side of the fence, great.  If it doesn't, I'll just keep looking.

 

I'm pretty sure you just bought it. We will wait to see where the ball lands, but if I had to bet...

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/19/21 12:02 p.m.

Hope it's better than my last vehicle purchase.  Lemon-flavored money pit.

759NRNG (Forum Partidario)
759NRNG (Forum Partidario) UltraDork
1/19/21 6:16 p.m.

Ok so I'll bite .......rust on a vehicle in PA is an inspection fail............PA...........rust........err really? 

dj06482 (Forum Supporter)
dj06482 (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
1/19/21 8:16 p.m.

I just did a nationwide search using AutoTempest.com, and a bunch of results came up. This one seems to offer good bang for the buck, and looks rust free.  https://www.truecar.com/used-cars-for-sale/listing/1GNFH154291128145/2009-chevrolet-express-passenger/

My thought is if you're traveling south, try to bring one back without any rust.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/19/21 8:35 p.m.
759NRNG (Forum Partidario) said:

Ok so I'll bite .......rust on a vehicle in PA is an inspection fail............PA...........rust........err really? 

Per PA BL-11-1:

RUST If substantial rust is observed externally on a vehicle during a safety inspection, it should serve as an indicator for the inspector to look more closely at other areas of the vehicle (frame, flooring, etc.) as these areas may be compromised. The following would be cause for rejection under the passenger car and light truck inspection procedure: rust that permits exhaust gases to enter the passenger or cargo compartment; protruding metal, loose or dislocated parts protruding from the surface so as to create a hazard; bumpers that are rusted so they are not firmly attached or have broken or torn portions protruding so as to create a hazard; and frames that are not in solid condition. Inspectors should follow the specific inspection procedure for the type of vehicle being inspected to determine pass/fail conditions.

The "quarter-sized" rust hole rule is not a guideline set by the state, it is a legal precedent set by a court case in the 80s.  I don't know the specifics of the case, but the story everyone in PA tells is that someone got an inspection on a rusty car, the station passed the inspection, and something rusty fell off the person's car and caused an accident.  The prosecution's argument seemed to focus on "how could you not notice a rust hole the size of a quarter?" and the rest is judicial precedent history.

My inspection guy is remarkably lenient.  Last time I took him a rocker panel that looked like that he said "you're asking me to be blind."  He passed it, but he wasn't happy about it.  The truth is, a quarter-sized hole isn't the issue.  If there were a quarter sized hole on a fender but all the welds around the perimeter are good, they'll pass it.  When an entire rocker panel looks like raisin bran, they're less likely to pass it because one good bump could send rusty shrapnel flying.  In PA, inspection stations are independent shops that have applied for the inspection license and at least one mechanic is a licensed inspection agent.  Because the judgement falls to independent people (including a cop who doesn't agree with the inspection shop) If I were to get a ticket, cause any damage, or someone were to walk by and cut their precious leg on my vehicle, the first thing they look at is the inspection station on the sticker.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/19/21 8:38 p.m.
dj06482 (Forum Supporter) said:

I just did a nationwide search using AutoTempest.com, and a bunch of results came up. This one seems to offer good bang for the buck, and looks rust free.  https://www.truecar.com/used-cars-for-sale/listing/1GNFH154291128145/2009-chevrolet-express-passenger/

My thought is if you're traveling south, try to bring one back without any rust.

I do like that van.  It will be a hard sell for me because it has almost twice the mileage and almost twice the price I'm trying to get on the red van.  87k-151k and $7000 ish up to $12k.

You're right, though, it does look pretty rust free

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