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nocones
nocones GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
8/23/14 6:44 p.m.

I've decided in the future the MG will probably get a light weight piston engine. The ecoboost 1.0l is intriguing as it would move a lot of weight back in the car due to its small size.

What red trans options are there? I would not be objectionable to an adapter to run the RX7 trans for the good gear spacing or would a duratec Miata trans work?

How about stand alone efi? Can a megasquirt do this?

Has anyone seen one in a yard yet? What is the final weight? I've seen claims of sub 200lbs ready to run. If I could get a torque filled 160-180 HP out of it I would be very happy.

Thoughts?

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
8/23/14 9:19 p.m.

Controlling any DI engine is currently a major problem.

First running the injectors- it's a very unique signal that isn't anything like a normal injector- they take a certain boost to open, and then a different hold signal, the on and off time are critical to injetion timing. Then there's that- you are forced to run sequential. Which has to be pretty darned accurate. And mapped. As far as I know, there is a box out there that will take a normal injector signal and make a proper DI injector signal.

Then the high pressure pump. Which is a totally different animal. Like the injectors, it's timed to the degree on the crank, runs from the tank pump up to 2500-3000 psi.

Then there's the twin cam timimg. Oh, the high pressure pump relies on the timing of the cams, since it's driven off of the exhaust cam.

Can be done. You can buy a Bosch racing ECU for a lot of money.

The controller also runs the boost control- which you will want, I'm sure. And the electronic throttle.

Lets put it this way- there are a ton of turbo DI engines out there in the market, and that I know of, not a realistic controller to run them other than the OEM one.

e46potenza
e46potenza New Reader
8/23/14 9:22 p.m.
alfadriver wrote: Controlling any DI engine is currently a major problem. Lets put it this way- there are a ton of turbo DI engines out there in the market, and that I know of, not a realistic controller to run them other than the OEM one.

Boom. Not to discourage... after all, someone has to get it started. Step 1: Get it in there. Step 2: ?. Step 3: Profit.

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
8/23/14 9:33 p.m.
e46potenza wrote:
alfadriver wrote: Controlling any DI engine is currently a major problem. Lets put it this way- there are a ton of turbo DI engines out there in the market, and that I know of, not a realistic controller to run them other than the OEM one.
Boom. Not to discourage... after all, someone has to get it started. Step 1: Get it in there. Step 2: ?. Step 3: Profit.

Go for it. It's your time and money.

I know the MS guys are working on it- it's been brought up here before.

Ojala
Ojala HalfDork
8/23/14 10:34 p.m.

Its not the 1.0l ecoboost, but I was surprised that Ford sells a standalone engine control pack for the 2.0l ecoboost that sells for $1400. I don't think you could get used Motec or Bosch capable of running DI for that kind of money.

MrChaos
MrChaos GRM+ Memberand Reader
8/23/14 11:22 p.m.

ive heard that at least with the 1.6 ecoboost that is shares the bolt pattern with the duratec so those trannys should work but I dont think anyone has tried to make a rwd 1.0 yet.

HiTempguy
HiTempguy UberDork
8/24/14 12:00 a.m.

You can make that kind of power out of a suzuki 1.0L turbo motor quite easily for pennies. I think they also have transmission that can bolt up for rwd.

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
8/24/14 8:00 a.m.
Ojala wrote: Its not the 1.0l ecoboost, but I was surprised that Ford sells a standalone engine control pack for the 2.0l ecoboost that sells for $1400. I don't think you could get used Motec or Bosch capable of running DI for that kind of money.

FWIW, I don't think that the module is tuneable. I would very much like it to be.

I know you can't get a 4 cyl cal/module to run on a 3 cyl, though.

wheelsmithy
wheelsmithy GRM+ Memberand Reader
8/24/14 8:27 a.m.

In response to the 3 cyl Suzuki bit;

Samurai or tracker 5 speed bolts up. (Or at least I hope so on the tracker transmission. I have two that I plan to put behind a G-13B, which shares the bell housing pattern with the G-10).

DWNSHFT
DWNSHFT HalfDork
8/24/14 9:34 a.m.

Ford put a 1.0 liter Ecoboost in a Formula Ford to run at the Nurburgring:

Chris Harris

David

iceracer
iceracer PowerDork
8/24/14 10:53 a.m.

They are racing the 1.0 in a Formula Ford in Europe.

Ojala
Ojala HalfDork
8/24/14 11:20 a.m.

In reply to alfadriver:

I haven't been impressed with the "tuning" of gas DI subaru engines so far and I can't think Ford gas DI "tuning" is much better. If nobody in the aftermarket or enthusiast communities really understands how to tune gas DI I don't think the lack of tune ability is a hindrance yet.

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
8/24/14 1:15 p.m.

In reply to Ojala:

What do you think is wrong with it? Seems like making 260 or so hp out of 2.0l is pretty stout.

Zeitgeist
Zeitgeist New Reader
8/24/14 1:44 p.m.

In reply to alfadriver:

I have a 2015 WRX and it makes good power and has good response. The fuel economy is much better then other 2.0 Subaru turbos I have had before (02 and 05). Lag is fairly minimal. What I think Ojala may be referring to and what I would like to see improved is how power is delivered. It can be odd and non linear in relation to the throttle inputs. Many times the throttle input seems disconnected from what the driver is doing. There is also power surge with less throttle input that if you ease back on the throttle reduces power also in a non linear way. I'm not really complaining as the new DIT 2.0 is so much more powerful,economic,smooth and flatish torqueband curve when compared to previous 2.o Turbo Subarus that it is a nice improvement. I just see some room for it to be even better than it is. I would like to see more consistent and linear response from engine compared to throttle input both at part and full throttle. More upper RPM power would also be nice.

erohslc
erohslc HalfDork
8/24/14 2:07 p.m.

I've noticed 'odd' and even dangerous behavior with recent drive by wire throttles.
It's like they are dead, no response to pedal movement.
Back off and then gradually re-apply throttle seems to work.
Of course if you have already been T-Boned it's too late.
Eventually enough folks will be killed, and it will be the GM ignition switch debacle all over again. The lawyers will LOVE it.

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
8/24/14 2:14 p.m.

In reply to Zeitgeist:

that's a whole lot more about how the electronic throttle is calibrated than direct injection or the turbo.

Everyone does torque based throttle, which does feel wierd. But everyone does it.

Also, most turbos are tuned to provide great low speed respnse, which does trim off the top end. Or at least can. Since the goal is to provide fuel economy, that trade off is normally how it goes. There are some engines out there that are limited by the high pressure fuel pump- it flow limits out.

Ojala
Ojala HalfDork
8/24/14 2:35 p.m.

In reply to alfadriver:

I'm talking aftermarket. I have seen so many "tuners" without any real understanding of what they were doing.

Ford oem engine management is great.

Subaru is finally getting there with the latest generation. But I would largely credit it to toyota anyways.

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
8/24/14 3:19 p.m.
Ojala wrote: In reply to alfadriver: I'm talking aftermarket. I have seen so many "tuners" without any real understanding of what they were doing.

That I fully agree about- something that I warn about often.

kanaric
kanaric Dork
8/24/14 4:52 p.m.

Would like to import a Honda Beat or Suzuki Cappuccino and put this engine in.

NOHOME
NOHOME SuperDork
8/24/14 6:39 p.m.

They seem to have figured how to make the GM LFX work in swaps, and its DI, so I imagine this too will come to pass.

The real issue is not the actual engine control, its the bleeping body modules that will drive you crazy.

By the way...did the Midget ever get on the road? If so, I missed it.

MrChaos
MrChaos GRM+ Memberand Reader
8/24/14 6:45 p.m.

In reply to iceracer:

iirc that is still a fwd transaxle mid mounted

Opti
Opti Reader
8/24/14 6:53 p.m.

I want to hear more about this turbo suzuki motor thats cheap. What did it come in?

Knurled
Knurled GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
8/24/14 6:56 p.m.
alfadriver wrote: Lets put it this way- there are a ton of turbo DI engines out there in the market, and that I know of, not a realistic controller to run them other than the OEM one.

Given that the OE controllers are reflashable, the best bet is going to be making the OE controller work.

Slyp_Dawg
Slyp_Dawg HalfDork
8/24/14 11:40 p.m.
Opti wrote: I want to hear more about this turbo suzuki motor thats cheap. What did it come in?

the G10/G10T (said 3 cylinder suzuki engine, both in NA and turbo varieties) could be had in the Suzuki Swift, Geo/Chevrolet Metro, and the Pontiac Firefly. since it shares a bolt pattern with the G13A (Geo Tracker and Suzuki Samurai engine), the 5 speed out of the tracker/sammi will bolt right up, although from what I've heard (so take it with a healthy sized grain of salt) the split between 1st and 2nd is so huge in those gearboxes that if 2nd-5th are geared correctly, 1st is too low to use.

iceracer
iceracer PowerDork
8/25/14 10:44 a.m.
MrChaos wrote: In reply to iceracer: iirc that is still a fwd transaxle mid mounted

The one in the Chris Harris video is not.

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