11 reasons not to buy a vintage car–and why you should ignore all of them

In reply to intrepid :

10 years ago, everyone was complaining about how the quality of replacement parts wasn't as good as it used to be. 10-15 years before THAT, it was really hard to actually find parts. My Land Rover was pushed into a barn for 10 years because the owner couldn't source the clutch parts needed before internet commerce became a thing. So it's probably easier to own a vintage vehicle now than it's ever been.

I agree that sub-standard parts should not be used to judge the effectiveness of a technology. 

In reply to frenchyd :

Your point about the SU pump having points doesn't really tell you anything. You're listening to the pump running, which you can do with any electric pump. Points are just a way for that pump not to work - and based on my mother's stories of having to cool the overheating SU pump on her early MGB, purchased new, that pump not working was pretty common.

Cars that just work definitely require less mechanical interaction. Instead, you get your interaction by actually driving instead of not being able to drive because you're having to fix it. So it comes down to the age old question of what you get out of a project car. For some, it's the building. For some, it's the end result and the using. If you want to spend your time building, get something with very high maintenance requirements - both scheduled and unscheduled. If you want to drive, set the car up to be reliable and trouble-free. That rusted out Chevy pickup did over a third of a million miles of work for you without you needing to listen carefully to diagnose potential problems in the fuel system every time you started it up.

6 months getting a $300 spitfire running, 6 months driving it made for an interesting year.  Ten minutes driving a 30 YO miata and the spit was up for sale.  So add one more reason to the list.

For my 58 Ghia (which I clearly do not drive every day) I find points are the best solution.  Why?  Yes, points are less reliable than a Pertronix, but Pertronix (as noted above) are not bullet proof.  I can carry a spare ignitions system around (points / condenser) for (now wildly more expensive) price of $7 or so.  If I want a spare Pertronix, that's a good $100.  The spare points also take up very little room in the tool box.

For my Corvair, a more performance oriented engine, I run a electronic distributor conversion, which seems to be a much higher quality / durability to the Pertronix.  I would consider a similar conversion for the Ghia, but it's really not necessary.

Say it again about the interactions. I bought my ratty old '84 Prelude because the first new car I ever bought was an '83. Loved how well it handled, but it was just so slow. Sold it after I paid it off, but had been saying I need to get another one "someday" for 35yrs. Guy only wanted $2K, and it ran & drove, so I did it.

About a month later, I'm out to make another run around the curvy roads around here. Stopped at the little country corner store on my way back. I come out, and there's a woman around my own age fawning over it.

Turns out a red 2G Prelude was she and her sister's 'hot college girls getting in trouble' car. And her sister passed away from cancer last year. She was in tears. So happy to see one still on the road. Would have offered her a ride, but it seemed inappropriate after she mentioned her sister's death. I go back to that store a lot now, but haven't seen her again. Must have been a tourist (state park here).

Like the author said, always a story. Book extra time for talking. 

Keith Tanner said:

In reply to frenchyd :

Your point about the SU pump having points doesn't really tell you anything. You're listening to the pump running, which you can do with any electric pump. Points are just a way for that pump not to work - and based on my mother's stories of having to cool the overheating SU pump on her early MGB, purchased new, that pump not working was pretty common.

Cars that just work definitely require less mechanical interaction. Instead, you get your interaction by actually driving instead of not being able to drive because you're having to fix it. So it comes down to the age old question of what you get out of a project car. For some, it's the building. For some, it's the end result and the using. If you want to spend your time building, get something with very high maintenance requirements - both scheduled and unscheduled. If you want to drive, set the car up to be reliable and trouble-free. That rusted out Chevy pickup did over a third of a million miles of work for you without you needing to listen carefully to diagnose potential problems in the fuel system every time you started it up.

Clearly you and I differ.  You are not wrong, nor  am I. 
   I enjoy that rainy weekend day spent on the MGTD.  Cleaning, polishing, dealing with a few nagging little issues, wiping down the underside from oil dripping.   Polishing the underside because I can,  oiling hinges and etc. removing the wire wheels and refreshing the splines with copper coat.   Wiping all 48 spokes clean and spraying  some WD 40 into each nipple thread.  Yes the grease gun cones out. Oil is changed. Classical music is on the boom box or maybe a little folk music.   Sure I check the points, plugs,  and valve lash. Tire pressure is reset and another coat of armorall applied to the tires.   I even check the tread to make sure no stones are stuck.  Then everything is noted in the log book. Going back to when I started it in1969. 
    By now much of the day has gone so the cover goes back over it and it's ready for the next time.   I think next time I'll polish the Whitworth wrenches and sockets. Maybe talk Claudia into making me a canvas roll for tools. 

porschenut said:

6 months getting a $300 spitfire running, 6 months driving it made for an interesting year.  Ten minutes driving a 30 YO miata and the spit was up for sale.  So add one more reason to the list.

I did over 25 years in the Fiat 124 world. One becomes something of an 'expert' on a car model when you've worked on as many as I did. When current owners want to change x, y or z on their car to make it 'better' (usually, faster) I advise them to sell it and get a Miata. I do this not because the Fiat 124 is an inferior car, it is just a car from a different era. It's an excellent sports car...for 1968. Either you want that experience, or you don't. If you don't, you should buy a Miata. It ruffles feathers, but I don't really care. 

I will agree that the quality of non-OEM parts is a constant battle no matter what era car we are talking about. But, the simpler the car, the less I think it matters. Good old American iron is probably the most forgiving. More suppliers, more demand and generally easy stuff to replace. I struggled with European cars for decades and kind of lost my appetite for car tinkering until I went domestic. Playing with stuff from the Big 3 is just so easy. 

The Japanese did a wonderful job of making things that were ultra-reliable and durable. Their electronics hardly ever fail. Unfortunately, the products just don't provide the joyful interaction I get from European or American brands. 

In reply to aircooled :

You can carry points around as a spare for a Pertronix if you want. The conversion is quick and simple. You'll probably never need them, but if you want to have one of everything that could possibly fail on board it's an option. 
 That's what I did with the Rover, and another owner benefited from it. 

In reply to friedgreencorrado :

I get a lot of comments on the '85 CRX. People definitely have associations, and are happy to see a clean one. For me, it was a car I loved in high school so I always wanted one. It's worth noting that it's probably as old now as the Midget used in the photo for this article was when the article was published :)

I drove it to Moab with Tim Suddard a few years ago and he was amazed I didn't bring tools. Why would I? It's a 35 year old Honda that gets driven! 

My dad had a couple wagons after his 63 fairlane he bought new. I was probably 6 years old when he traded it in, but I remember it well only time on side of the road in that, (in my younger memory, was when he ran out of gas. 
couple in between, no impression. But I drove the Plymouth Fury III wagon a few times. He had several ignition modules leave him stranded... till he bought 2, replaced the bad one, and put the spare, and needed tools. in the tire well. I'm. not sure anything on that wagon failed the next couple years. 
They were right expensive. 100 bucks, if I recall correctly. But he prolly made $1.10/ hr about that time... still said it was the best 100 he ever spent. 
His middle brother, with a dodge luxo-boat, had exact same thing happen!

new modern cars are a bit better, the the guy that claims they NEVER leave you broken an the side of the road, is as full of it as the guy that says points are better!!! Truth, as usual, is somewhere between those ridiculous extremes 

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Regarding overheating SU fuel pumps.  I'm afraid that was a false diagnosis.  For decades I was  told SU fuel pumps are unreliable and need to cool down, then be hit with a (stick/ hammer depends on who's doing the telling). When  it gets too frequent just replace the whole fuel pump.  Doubtless told that by mechanics who understood cleaning points wouldn't pay very well but installing a new fuel pump would. 

    Then I learned the points get dirty and need to be cleaned. Which I've done for the past 40 years of ownership to the same SU fuel pump.  It takes less than 2 minutes to do. So I do it as part of every oil change. 
     I did it on a Rolls Royce that was towed into the shop and explained it was part of every British cars maintenance.   I've done it on Jaguars and every British car I've ever worked. Plus told the owners to spread the word.  

     Yes, the Japanese learned quality control very well.  The cars don't need such attention. But they lack the character that British cars used to have.
      They are great for reliable transportation. An excellent transportation appliance.  While I may not like the styling of many of them.  As a reliable transport module few exceed them.  

In reply to frenchyd :

I'll tell my Mom that her new MG had a dirty pump from the factory :)

My CRX actually shares a lot of driving characteristics of my classic Mini. It's got loads of character, talkative steering, enough power to be quick but not fast, light weight and a little snorty exhaust note. It wants to be going just a little faster all the time. It's even far more roomy inside than you'd think. It is far from a transportation appliance, the second generation was the '55 Chevy of a younger generation. The fact that it just works is a plus, not a minus. 

I'm not saying that modern cars are bombproof. But the mean time between failures is dramatically longer, and by replacing consumable parts in the ignition system with ones that have a much lower failure rate you can improve that on vintage cars as well. There's no joy in coasting to the side of the road other than in the retelling later. 

In reply to Keith Tanner :

My MGTD has never graced the side of the highway or failed on the race track. 
 It did come in with a rod knock when oil was blown out of a filler cap that must have been left loose.  ( I'm guilty ) 

    But it rode home on  Bob Bodine's trailer intended for a mega million Ferrari GTO, 

 Luckily the damage only hurt the bearing and a fresh set of bearing had it good as new. 
  My Black Jack special. Raced with the same engine from  mid 1970's until it was sold to the Packard Museum in about 2015.  

It's interesting to see, again, that flaws = character.   Because most of the other "character" that people want are available in many Japanese products.  Just as the lack of those same characters can be found in European products.

And I admit that I was part of that looking for flaws thing- I always knew that a simple Miata was a far superior autocrossing car than my GTV ever was- but I liked how the driving flaws felt.  There was no way a Alfa 105/115 chassis was ever going to be better than the Miata- and it was really easy to get one with really incredible feedback, so you could feel every parts of the road and enjoy it- there's a real reason Miatas are so popular, after all.

An amusing side story about CRX's, which starts with an Alfa.  My first car was an Alfetta GT- cool car, not quite as cool as the GTV, but cool enough.  But seriously problematic- the PO's left some seriously lingering problems that it took some real specialists to iron out.  Anyway, given that I could not drive it to a summer job in California, and certainly could not get me to grad school in Michigan, I added a CRX HF to my stable (ok, my parents did).  With 65hp, it certainly was not the fastest thing in the world- but being so very simple- it was great to drive.  Like all of the best of a normal Mini but with it being really reliable and REALLY good on fuel.

Kept that car so long that I added 165k miles on it myself.  If I had gotten farther into the Honda world to know where to get engine swaps, it may have been my first Challenge car back in 2001.  Basically, for those who think that all Japanese cars are just appliances have no idea what they are talking about.  As far as I'm concerned, they just want to find reasons to justify their choices by saying tropes that people in their tribe agree with.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

My 1975 Trans Am HEI module failed in 1976 coming back from Lime Rock on a Sunday. We had to wait until the parts store opened the next day. I never had points, condenser, coil or distributor leave me stranded in the previous 12 years of driving. GM continued to produce unreliable HEI modules into the 90s. I used to carry a spare in my tool bag.

Not trying to fuel the points vs:electronic  pick up fire here, but this snippet is from a recent Classic Motorsports article I was reading.

To provide more consistent and reliable spark, the distributors were converted to use electronic triggers rather the antiquated points setup

Scott

alfadriver said:

It's interesting to see, again, that flaws = character.   Because most of the other "character" that people want are available in many Japanese products.  Just as the lack of those same characters can be found in European products.

And I admit that I was part of that looking for flaws thing- I always knew that a simple Miata was a far superior autocrossing car than my GTV ever was- but I liked how the driving flaws felt.  There was no way a Alfa 105/115 chassis was ever going to be better than the Miata- and it was really easy to get one with really incredible feedback, so you could feel every parts of the road and enjoy it- there's a real reason Miatas are so popular, after all.

An amusing side story about CRX's, which starts with an Alfa.  My first car was an Alfetta GT- cool car, not quite as cool as the GTV, but cool enough.  But seriously problematic- the PO's left some seriously lingering problems that it took some real specialists to iron out.  Anyway, given that I could not drive it to a summer job in California, and certainly could not get me to grad school in Michigan, I added a CRX HF to my stable (ok, my parents did).  With 65hp, it certainly was not the fastest thing in the world- but being so very simple- it was great to drive.  Like all of the best of a normal Mini but with it being really reliable and REALLY good on fuel.

Kept that car so long that I added 165k miles on it myself.  If I had gotten farther into the Honda world to know where to get engine swaps, it may have been my first Challenge car back in 2001.  Basically, for those who think that all Japanese cars are just appliances have no idea what they are talking about.  As far as I'm concerned, they just want to find reasons to justify their choices by saying tropes that people in their tribe agree with.

 You won't hear-that from me.  Back in the late 70's I sold the first Honda Civics   In the Twin Cities.  I made more money selling a Civic  than I did selling the GMC motorhome Eleganza  

     It's the car that I drag raced and my demo ride was to go to the nearby freeway cloverleaf and demonstrate its cornering power while I talked about fuel mileage.  

I had about the same number of miles on a mgb, and a new CRX si, back in 87, on backwoods roads for fun. Technically, the SI was faster, handled better and got better mpg. Definitely more dependable, and less fuss to maint. 
But on the fun scale of a single, no kids young (ish) guy. The MG was head and shoulders above. Would not fit in either all that well today, so...

I also owned a CRX Si. I was pretty enamored by the CRX when it came out as there really wasn't much else interesting in the small car landscape at the time. It was a quick, competent car. And that's really all I can say about it. After paying it off, I sold it soon after. It was an appliance. 

Now, to someone who has never experienced 'what came before' I suppose a CRX or it's ilk (Sentra SE-R, etc) would be a pretty cool car. But it left me wanting, and I returned to European cars. The only Japanese cars I've owned since then have been Subarus, which were quirky enough to have some character while still being reliable. 

Today, with virtually all cars being vanilla and laden with technology (that can/does fail) I'd probably just buy a Honda or Toyota to avoid as many trips to the dealer as possible. I have no interest working on them or modifying them. The old stuff is fun, and easy to understand without resorting to a laptop.

On old cars I have found that you can ward off mechanical failures using automotive juju. Only the parts that you lack spares for tend to fail on cross country trips! I know this because in around 1980 I was down around San Francisco with the same white MGA coupe as in the picture I posted earlier.  We were driving home to  up the nice winding coat highway when my water pump started to make noise (bearings going out) and leak.  I did not have a spare pump, and it was a hard to find water pump as it was only used for a couple of years - 1963/64 in the 3 main bearing MGB engine my car had in it.

I called up and down the coast to try and locate a spare and found one in Portland (at Faspec, owned by a competitor of mine who raced a Morris Minor truck with a killer 1275 in it).  I drove very slowly from Crescent City ro Portland, bought the pump and changed it in an underground parking garage and we were on our way.  I bought another spare pump and put it in the boot, and because of automotive juju have never had another pump failure (the initial one that did fail had been new when I built the engine back around 1977 or so, possibly a faulty rebuilt pump).

My conclusion is that any part likely to fail can be prevented from failing by carrying a suitable spare.  If you have it on board, it will never fail.

And I will second what Frenchy said about SU pumps - dress the points once a decade or so and ward off problems with them.  We had a Wolseley 6/99 that had the Lucas pump going out and we got home by putting my wife in the boot (which I hasten to say was capacious - you could hold a party back there (although my Jag Mk 9 was even larger)  armed with a crescent wrench and a flashlight, with instructions to tap on the pump  whenever I yelled out.

We had to make one stop on the way home and when I parked at the curb and let my wife out of the boot, a couple were walking by and for some reason I said "And of you do it again it will be back in the trunk with you!"  I was in the dog house for quite awhile for that momentary indiscretion!

I blew snot on that.  Thank you.!  
  But Amen to the carried spare part.   I have never needed them no matter where I go.   

I have a clock from a world war 2 Fletcher class destroyers 

It has an adjustment  on it that can speed up or slow down the works so you can adjust the clock precisely.  Here is a 80 year old clock that has spent the first 30 years of its life at sea probably  in battles.  And it's still keeping time 
 Try to do that with your Digital  clock.  

In reply to Carl Heideman :

I grew up on classic sports cars. You name it I've had it. For the last 28 years I had this 300zx fair lady. It was a 1985 digital gauges, talking computer, powered everything modern sports car. I had it fully restored. Even then it never quite scratched my itch. It was dependable and never broke down ever. It just didn't have that true top down two seater rag top character.

So I traded it for a 1977 Fiat 124 Spider. Funny thing is it doesn't leak oil or have problems running well. Probably because everything has been rebuilt or replaced. The minute I drove it is was heaven on wheels. Now I'm restoring the exterior and interior. This car scratched my itch for sure! And Mary likes it too!

Great article. All true. Thanks for the good read!

Keith Tanner said:

In reply to frenchyd :

Your point about the SU pump having points doesn't really tell you anything. You're listening to the pump running, which you can do with any electric pump. Points are just a way for that pump not to work - and based on my mother's stories of having to cool the overheating SU pump on her early MGB, purchased new, that pump not working was pretty common.

Cars that just work definitely require less mechanical interaction. Instead, you get your interaction by actually driving instead of not being able to drive because you're having to fix it. So it comes down to the age old question of what you get out of a project car. For some, it's the building. For some, it's the end result and the using. If you want to spend your time building, get something with very high maintenance requirements - both scheduled and unscheduled. If you want to drive, set the car up to be reliable and trouble-free. That rusted out Chevy pickup did over a third of a million miles of work for you without you needing to listen carefully to diagnose potential problems in the fuel system every time you started it up.

You know, you're at least part right. New cars are probably a lot more reliable than the old stuff we love. However those old MG's, Jaguar's, Austin Healey's, are not stamped out by the millions  as most newer cars are. 
   They were honestly hand built by craftsmen.  Designed by one person rather than a committee. And built to be fun.  
       Fun!   Not just a transportation module with a trend towards this or that. 
     Have you ever hand crank started a car in front of a young kid?  Watch his eyes open up as his mouth drops? 
   Have a 16 year old kid drop his hand down and touch the pavement because of the cut away doors? 
     Drive around a corner at 30 mph and have a teenage girl squeal with excitement and thrills. 
     The trouble with new is it too soon gets old.  There are enough new cars around that they are treated like appliances. Replaced with the next newest style. Until new doesn't mean anything more than a new pair of sox's 

Gen Z ignores cars. They are thought of as transportation modules tied up in a traffic Jam. More of a problem than any sense of freedom and exploration. 
      
     But really restoration is an expensive proposition. Trying to turn back the hand of time  that has moved on.  Making parts an expensive proposition without the masses to pay for that Re-engineering. 
  No logic at all.  Just Love and the memories of time long past. 

frenchyd said:

Keith Tanner said:

In reply to frenchyd :

Your point about the SU pump having points doesn't really tell you anything. You're listening to the pump running, which you can do with any electric pump. Points are just a way for that pump not to work - and based on my mother's stories of having to cool the overheating SU pump on her early MGB, purchased new, that pump not working was pretty common.

Cars that just work definitely require less mechanical interaction. Instead, you get your interaction by actually driving instead of not being able to drive because you're having to fix it. So it comes down to the age old question of what you get out of a project car. For some, it's the building. For some, it's the end result and the using. If you want to spend your time building, get something with very high maintenance requirements - both scheduled and unscheduled. If you want to drive, set the car up to be reliable and trouble-free. That rusted out Chevy pickup did over a third of a million miles of work for you without you needing to listen carefully to diagnose potential problems in the fuel system every time you started it up.

Clearly you and I differ.  You are not wrong, nor  am I. 
   I enjoy that rainy weekend day spent on the MGTD.  Cleaning, polishing, dealing with a few nagging little issues, wiping down the underside from oil dripping.   Polishing the underside because I can,  oiling hinges and etc. removing the wire wheels and refreshing the splines with copper coat.   Wiping all 48 spokes clean and spraying  some WD 40 into each nipple thread.  Yes the grease gun cones out. Oil is changed. Classical music is on the boom box or maybe a little folk music.   Sure I check the points, plugs,  and valve lash. Tire pressure is reset and another coat of armorall applied to the tires.   I even check the tread to make sure no stones are stuck.  Then everything is noted in the log book. Going back to when I started it in1969. 
    By now much of the day has gone so the cover goes back over it and it's ready for the next time.   I think next time I'll polish the Whitworth wrenches and sockets. Maybe talk Claudia into making me a canvas roll for tools. 

That sums up my idea of fun with a car really well now, Frenchy.