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Ed Higginbotham
Ed Higginbotham Editorial Assistant
2/5/16 11:26 a.m.
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Since entering the market, the Scion FR-S and Subaru BRZ have become commonplace at autocrosses and track days. In fact, eight of the top 10 finishers in Street Touring Xtreme at SCCA Solo Nationals sported one of those two badges. So we know they can handle the corners, but how do they fare from a practical point of view?

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NOHOME
NOHOME PowerDork
2/5/16 11:49 a.m.

The FRS is exactly as you describe it. The target market that bought the car is too busy enjoying the car to say much. Count me in that group.

The fringe market, a much needed sector needed to pad sales of this car, unfortunately have a lot to say about the individual items that don't meet their expectations. These are the people who want more stereo quality, more power or a softer ride perhaps. This is regardless of whether they actually own the model.

Unfortunately for Subaru and Toyota, guess who gets the most internet press.

Jerry From LA
Jerry From LA Dork
2/5/16 3:48 p.m.

Those people are the ones who want every car to be like every other car, then decry the sameness of all those cars. Sadly, the Scion nameplate is doomed but I hope they put a Toyota badge on it and send it back out there.

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
2/5/16 4:21 p.m.

When I bought the 15, they looked for 2 weeks to find a 6spd in a color I wanted. I could have walked away with a fully loaded 2013, with about $3,000 worth of TRD bolt ons, but with the automatic. Nope, the pull of rowing your own was too strong. I guess dealer thought that Girls and grandmas would line up to buy them wit the slushbox. Nope, nope, nope.

I wonder if I waited until Summer of this year, if I could have gotten a deal on one still badged as a Scion still sitting on a Toyota lot? Best not tot thinks about it.

Bullseye on what it feels like to drive.

iceracer
iceracer PowerDork
2/5/16 4:40 p.m.

In reply to Ed Higginbotham: Interesting to see that is does have front and rear brakes.

1988RedT2
1988RedT2 PowerDork
2/5/16 6:30 p.m.

My wife brought a 2015 6-speed home for a test drive just for fun, and I thought the car was very nice for what it was. I really couldn't say anything bad about it. I can't say I'm in the market for one, though. I'm saving my money for a 7-passenger minivan that corners like a Miata, accelerates like the Corvette, and gets 30 mpg.

Mitchell
Mitchell UberDork
2/5/16 7:03 p.m.

The FR-S was in a dead-heat battle against the outgoing NC Miata when I was car shopping last year. I enjoyed the FR-S' cabin and the precise handling, but ultimately decided that the NC's more pleasant exhaust note, lovely shifter, and ability to go roofless were worth the few extra bucks on the lightly-used market. If the Miata did not exist, I would certainly be driving one of the twins right now.

wspohn
wspohn HalfDork
2/6/16 9:27 a.m.

Both Mazda and the FRS/BRZ seem to share the attitude that more power is not on their agenda.

Offering a version with, say, 275 bhp or so would boost visibility n the small sports car market segment.

sesto elemento
sesto elemento Dork
2/6/16 10:35 a.m.

If they made it with a 2gr and a v160, I'd own one but I personally want nothing to do with subaru after owning 2.

Mr_Clutch42
Mr_Clutch42 SuperDork
2/6/16 11:00 a.m.

I think that a lot of people that were disappointed with it were looking for a different car. It's a low hp car, but a lot of people complained that it was lacking hp. What?!? They supposedly knew that it had 200 hp when they test drove it! People also said that the driving experience was underwhelming, and that is subjective. But I will assume that plenty of people drove it only in city driving, and not on curvy back roads.

Mitchell
Mitchell UberDork
2/6/16 11:43 a.m.
wspohn wrote: Offering a version with, say, 275 bhp or so would boost visibility n the small sports car market segment.

Offering a version with 275 hp would likely require many driveline and structural enhancements, bumping the car into the $30k and 3200 lb mark. Still more expensive than the competition.

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
2/6/16 12:21 p.m.

In reply to Mitchell:

Thus turning it into a Genesis or a 370Z.

Mr_Clutch42
Mr_Clutch42 SuperDork
2/6/16 12:29 p.m.

In reply to Mitchell: Exactly, and making it a different sports car altogether.

Rubens
Rubens New Reader
2/7/16 10:50 p.m.

I'm totally in love with the car. Thankfully even after Toyota pull the plug of Scion brand, they will keep building the car under the Toyota badge.

DaveEstey
DaveEstey PowerDork
2/8/16 7:42 a.m.

Eh. I've driven one in anger and on the street. I prefer my NC Miata in every regard. The engine never feels like a willing partner - it's just there.

pinchvalve
pinchvalve MegaDork
2/8/16 8:35 a.m.

My problem is that the Fiesta ST has way more torque and is much more livable and is cheaper, and if I had $27K and wanted RWD, i'd go Miata so that I could put the top down. The FR-S falls into a weird niche. That said, a stock-class BRZ runs locally and utterly dominates, so I know the thing can H-A-N-D-L-E.

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
2/8/16 10:01 a.m.

For everyone who loves a top down, there are those that hate the idea. They're the ones who by Frisbees.

Joe Gearin
Joe Gearin Associate Publisher
2/8/16 10:33 a.m.

I just spent the weekend in our new ND MX-5. It's as wonderful as you have heard. For flingable, affordable fun, we have two great RWD choices. Like Appleseed said---- if you like to put the top down--- MX-5. If you prefer a tin-top---- Frisbee twins.

you really can't lose

Vracer111
Vracer111 Reader
2/8/16 11:52 a.m.
Joe Gearin wrote: I just spent the weekend in our new ND MX-5. It's as wonderful as you have heard. For flingable, affordable fun, we have two great RWD choices. Like Appleseed said---- if you like to put the top down--- MX-5. If you prefer a tin-top---- Frisbee twins. you really can't lose

This is so true...if you don't like one you will probably like the other. Not really a miata fan, and didn't really like the drive I had in the ND recently, but I do appreciate them existing. Besides the convertible or couple preference there is another big one. If you like the chassis listing and yawing about, then the miata works; if you like a more laser-precision point-and-shoot focused chassis with virtually no perceptible body roll, then FR-S is what you want.

Desmond
Desmond Reader
2/8/16 12:32 p.m.

I really want the Frisbees to do well. In a market full of big, heavy, sophisticated sports cars full of electronic nannies, the FRS is kind of the light on the horizon. Its light weight, its simple, its cheap, its RWD, it was made with only one thing in mind: driving pleasure. What other cars can you say that about besides the ND?

Its a good situation for us. Competition breeds growth and development!

bmxr
bmxr New Reader
2/12/16 7:16 a.m.

I really don't understand why the frzbrz hardcores get so defensive about the power issue. The car feels slow, even for a car with only 200hp. My RSX-S had a much more entertaining powerplant. The twins ARE SLOW. Some people are OK with that. Other people would like a little more power. Car guys want more power? Whoda' thunk it? To suggest that a little more power would ruin the car is ridiculous. I have been wanting one of these cars since they came out, badly. I love doing track days, but I live in FLorida, not on a race track, so more power is a must for me. Since this car came out I have been driving a GTI, a 15 WRX, and now I'm in a Track Package GT. If the twins had been released with the WRX powerplant there is a 100% chance I'd be driving that and I am also certain there are thousands of people out there who feel as I do.

racerdave600
racerdave600 SuperDork
2/12/16 9:26 a.m.

The power is by far my biggest complaint against my BRZ. To be fair, I came from the 370 to this, so I had a higher hp mindset, but lets be honest, it really isn't fast. It does handle great however, although I think the stock shocks are atrocious. A modest hp bump would do wonders for it overall I think, maybe in the sales department too. You would think that with 200hp, it would feel faster than this, but it doesn't. Get in a MR2 Turbo for instance with similar power and weight, and it feels like a rocket by comparison. Just saying....

Joe Gearin
Joe Gearin Associate Publisher
2/12/16 10:21 a.m.

Speed tests for the Twins vary more widely than most cars, and we haven't done speed testing on an FR-S yet. That said, most tests have the Frisbee twins going 0-60 in about 6.5 seconds---1/4 mile in about 15 seconds

For comparison:

Acura RSX-type S---- 0-60-- 6.1 seconds--- 1/4 mile----- 14.8

1992 Toyota MR2 Turbo--- 0-60-- 6.3---- 1/4 mile --- 14.8

Acura Intergra Type R--- 0-60--- 6.6 ---- 1/4 mile --- 15.2

1988 BMW M3---- 0-60--- 6.9----- 1/4 mile --- 15.2

2014 Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 V6 ---- 0-60--- 5.9---- 1/4 mile --- 14.4

NC MX-5 Miata---- 0-60---- 6.5 ----- 1/4 mile---- 15

I'll concede that the Frisbee twins may not be the fastest cars on the block. In the grand scheme of things though, they are not slow cars. I've driven fast cars that weren't very engaging or entertaining, and I've driven very slow cars that were a blast. Of course more powah is always better, but I find the twins extremely satisfying and engaging as is.

rslifkin
rslifkin Reader
2/12/16 10:25 a.m.

By the numbers, they're certainly not slow. Definitely faster than an NA Miata... I think they're kinda stuck in the issue of a smooth powerband being more usable, but not feeling as fast as a high-revving peaky engine would.

Robbie
Robbie SuperDork
2/12/16 10:44 a.m.

In reply to Joe Gearin:

Let's compare the other way, not to change your point at all, but just for fun.

2016 honda pilot (4000 lb, 7 seat, 3500-5000lb towing, $31k, beastie):

0-60: 6.2, 1/4 mile, 14.8.

http://www.caranddriver.com/honda/pilot

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