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Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
7/8/20 6:47 p.m.
NickD said:

Next year, Mazda is putting the 250hp/320lb-ft 2.5T motor into the Mazda3 hatchbacks and sedans with standard AWD and a bunch of blacked-out trim pieces and black 18" wheels. No word on price or what else will be changed. It is important to note that this is not a Mazdaspeed3. Its not some hairy-chested psychotic hot hatch, but a sporty commuter car with some pep in its step. It is strongly rumored to be automatic only, although if it uses the same automatic transmission tuning as the CX-3 (the only new Mazda product I've driven recently), then that is not much of a downgrade, as that was a pretty slick piece. 

https://www.mazdausa.com/vehicles/2021-mazda3-turbo?soccmp=soc00000182&fbclid=IwAR3mziGSprTDuKNl3erLi7GFV02o5mHe6ZWMIdltAbjZ0CaOAVT41x0EEuc

The0retical (Forum Supporter)
The0retical (Forum Supporter) UberDork
7/8/20 7:02 p.m.
mr2s2000elise said:

Head of Mazda Mexico revealed last week its AT only. 

for us old mazdaspeed3 owners, sad. 

I may go test drive one anyway. I'd bet Corksport, CP-E, JBR, Damond Motorsports and Cobb will be willing to hot it up if desired.

We'll see what the price point looks like. $35k would probably be a deal killer, for me anyway, as there's a lot of competition in that space and price point with all the hotted up compacts lately.

I can't say I hate the competition though.

mr2s2000elise
mr2s2000elise SuperDork
7/8/20 7:29 p.m.
The0retical (Forum Supporter) said:
mr2s2000elise said:

Head of Mazda Mexico revealed last week its AT only. 

for us old mazdaspeed3 owners, sad. 

I may go test drive one anyway. I'd bet Corksport, CP-E, JBR, Damond Motorsports and Cobb will be willing to hot it up if desired.

We'll see what the price point looks like. $35k would probably be a deal killer, for me anyway, as there's a lot of competition in that space and price point with all the hotted up compacts lately.

I can't say I hate the competition though.

I am sure there will be lots of mods for it. I am sure it will be 31-35k or so. I am also sure, Cobb and Corksport wont add the third pedal. It is a no go for me. But more choices in the marketplace is a good thing for the consumer  smiley

For me the GRMN Corolla or the new 2022 WRX will be the better options. 

irish44j (Forum Supporter)
irish44j (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
7/8/20 7:39 p.m.

Obviously woudld be a direct competitor with the GTI, with similar specs in most categories. Will be interesting to see if:

1. it's cheaper than a GTI

2. the interior will be up to the (very) high standard of a GTI in that price class

3. I expect it will handle great, since it's a Mazda

4. Seems like the lack of a manual could hurt sales if GTI is a competitor. Everyone I know with a GTI has a manual pretty much. else you get the DSG.

5. That grille is still hideous. Otherwise I think the 3 is a nice-looking car (we had a first-generation 3S back in 2004-7 that handled great and looked nice but was overall kind of "meh")

poopshovel again
poopshovel again MegaDork
7/8/20 7:52 p.m.

irish44j (Forum Supporter)
irish44j (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
7/8/20 7:58 p.m.
The0retical (Forum Supporter) said:
mr2s2000elise said:

Head of Mazda Mexico revealed last week its AT only. 

for us old mazdaspeed3 owners, sad. 

I may go test drive one anyway. I'd bet Corksport, CP-E, JBR, Damond Motorsports and Cobb will be willing to hot it up if desired.

We'll see what the price point looks like. $35k would probably be a deal killer, for me anyway, as there's a lot of competition in that space and price point with all the hotted up compacts lately.

I can't say I hate the competition though.

I was out the door with my 2018 GTI SE for under $28k less than 2 years ago. So if they price this thing over $30k, i think it will be a massive sales failure unless dealers discount them heavily. 

Tony Sestito
Tony Sestito PowerDork
7/9/20 10:01 a.m.

I'm guessing this stickers for at least $33-35K. It only comes in fully loaded, AWD flavors, and a loaded FWD hatch with a stick is $29k in most colors. Add a turbo motor, AWD, and the auto trans and yup, it's going to be at least that.

It's going to be a hard sell not only against it's competition (like the GTI, WRX, etc) but also other in-house offerings. The larger Mazda 6 Turbo can be had for right around the same money, and the bigger CX-5 with the turbo engine is just a little bit more.

I'm sure it will be a great car, but they are going to have a hard time selling them. They are having a hard enough time selling the normal ones!

Rons
Rons GRM+ Memberand Reader
7/9/20 10:51 a.m.

Canadian prices in $C start at 32,900 for a GT sedan  and top out at 37,100 for a 100th Anniversary Hatch.

ProDarwin
ProDarwin UltimaDork
7/9/20 11:02 a.m.

I am not really interested in this, but I don't hate it either.

Give me a sport package on the 3.  Base 2.5L engine, 6 speed, limited slip, and a slightly tuned suspension/wider wheels/tires and I would find that far more appealing.

Kreb (Forum Supporter)
Kreb (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UberDork
7/9/20 11:37 a.m.

I know that Mazda's all about clean-and-classy, but I'd like to see a bit of boy racer in this thing. It seems like they're trying to position themselves as an alternative to premium brands rather than duking it out with the WRXs of the world, but I don't think that they'll be able to outgrow the perception that it's a really nice (economy car). 

And the nose is too long for my aesthetic taste.  

DirtyBird222
DirtyBird222 UberDork
7/9/20 11:48 a.m.

IMHO pricing will kill this thing as it currently is now. I can grab a Civic Hatchback Sport with a 6-spd MT for less than $25k. The same spec Mazda3 hatch is $29k. A Hyundai Veloster-N with the PP is $30k and a GTI can be had for $30k. Then you have the Civic Si and WRX sedan options at sub $30k. There are much sportier options out there for less or equal pricing and I feel like Mazda is totally missing the mark with this car as a whole (not just the turbo). I get they are trying to be more of a boutique upmarket car maker; but, com'on...they are pricing themselves out of the game. 

I totally feel the turbo car will be in Civic Type R pricing...

ProDarwin
ProDarwin UltimaDork
7/9/20 12:42 p.m.
Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:

I know that Mazda's all about clean-and-classy, but I'd like to see a bit of boy racer in this thing.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
7/9/20 1:26 p.m.
DirtyBird222 said:

IMHO pricing will kill this thing as it currently is now. I can grab a Civic Hatchback Sport with a 6-spd MT for less than $25k. The same spec Mazda3 hatch is $29k. A Hyundai Veloster-N with the PP is $30k and a GTI can be had for $30k. Then you have the Civic Si and WRX sedan options at sub $30k. There are much sportier options out there for less or equal pricing and I feel like Mazda is totally missing the mark with this car as a whole (not just the turbo). I get they are trying to be more of a boutique upmarket car maker; but, com'on...they are pricing themselves out of the game. 

I totally feel the turbo car will be in Civic Type R pricing...

Yeah, but Subaru's have such great interiors and build quality..............oh wait. 

Type R pricing? I don't think everyone in the decision making path at Mazda is high on cocaine and opium to think anyone would look at this car for $37k or more. 

DirtyBird222
DirtyBird222 UberDork
7/9/20 1:56 p.m.
z31maniac said:
DirtyBird222 said:

IMHO pricing will kill this thing as it currently is now. I can grab a Civic Hatchback Sport with a 6-spd MT for less than $25k. The same spec Mazda3 hatch is $29k. A Hyundai Veloster-N with the PP is $30k and a GTI can be had for $30k. Then you have the Civic Si and WRX sedan options at sub $30k. There are much sportier options out there for less or equal pricing and I feel like Mazda is totally missing the mark with this car as a whole (not just the turbo). I get they are trying to be more of a boutique upmarket car maker; but, com'on...they are pricing themselves out of the game. 

I totally feel the turbo car will be in Civic Type R pricing...

Yeah, but Subaru's have such great interiors and build quality..............oh wait. 

Type R pricing? I don't think everyone in the decision making path at Mazda is high on cocaine and opium to think anyone would look at this car for $37k or more. 

It's going to be in the mid-30s, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to look at their current pricing and options to figure that one out. If I'm wrong I owe you a six pack of your choice of malt liquor.

I've owned many a Subaru and their current build quality and interior quality is light years better than what most people base their opinions on. 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
7/9/20 4:42 p.m.
DirtyBird222 said:
z31maniac said:
DirtyBird222 said:

IMHO pricing will kill this thing as it currently is now. I can grab a Civic Hatchback Sport with a 6-spd MT for less than $25k. The same spec Mazda3 hatch is $29k. A Hyundai Veloster-N with the PP is $30k and a GTI can be had for $30k. Then you have the Civic Si and WRX sedan options at sub $30k. There are much sportier options out there for less or equal pricing and I feel like Mazda is totally missing the mark with this car as a whole (not just the turbo). I get they are trying to be more of a boutique upmarket car maker; but, com'on...they are pricing themselves out of the game. 

I totally feel the turbo car will be in Civic Type R pricing...

Yeah, but Subaru's have such great interiors and build quality..............oh wait. 

Type R pricing? I don't think everyone in the decision making path at Mazda is high on cocaine and opium to think anyone would look at this car for $37k or more. 

It's going to be in the mid-30s, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to look at their current pricing and options to figure that one out. If I'm wrong I owe you a six pack of your choice of malt liquor.

I've owned many a Subaru and their current build quality and interior quality is light years better than what most people base their opinions on. 

Could be, I don't know. I'm saying the upper-management at Mazda must be seriously high on pyschotropic substances if they think anyone is going to buy that car with an MSRP approaching $37k. Maybe there are some economies of scale since the engine is already developed? Again, I don't know. 

I've owned a "modern Subaru," and while I loved my '15 BRZ (purchased new), build quality and interior quality are not anything to write home about. The '18 STi I test drove a few years ago felt like a late-2000s Hyundai on the inside. If you think it is something to write home about, maybe you should lay off the Malt Liquor.

Or at least move on to grown up booze. devil

CyberEric
CyberEric Dork
7/9/20 6:29 p.m.

In reply to ProDarwin :

This 100%.

Peabody
Peabody UltimaDork
7/9/20 6:29 p.m.

Mid 30’s in Canada 

https://www.mazda.ca/en/inside-mazda/2021-mazda3-turbo/

Your price should be roughly 70% of that, though you never know how pricing works.

I happen to think that’s  a really ugly car. Poopy nailed it

CyberEric
CyberEric Dork
7/9/20 6:33 p.m.

In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :

I think it’s going to be a massive sales failure.

Mazda makes their money on the Cx stuff, not the 3. The only reason this car exists is because the engine was developed for the cx-9.

The press release did say the motor is tuned for something like driving enthusiasts, but as it sits, it’s a low end torque engine and it’s likely to get slammed by the auto press for not having the sporting suspension, sporting engine, tires, or sporty gearbox. The GTI will absolutely crush it in every metric, unless Mazda does something with the above.

I bet Mazda doesn’t want this to be compared to the GTI, but the Audi A3. They seem to want that buyer, not the GTI buyer. It may actually compare favorably with the A3.

For the record, not that anyone cares, I think these look really great. Better than any of the cars in the class to my eye. When I (rarely) see one on the road, it really catches my eye. 

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
7/9/20 7:33 p.m.

In reply to CyberEric :

They’ll likely beat the GTI in one metric- trips to the dealer for stupid issues.  My wife loves driving her Mk7 GTI, but its problems have caused her to swear off modern German cars completely.

CyberEric
CyberEric Dork
7/9/20 8:11 p.m.

In reply to eastsideTim :

Touche! I'm with your wife on swearing off modern German cars.

irish44j (Forum Supporter)
irish44j (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
7/9/20 8:44 p.m.
ProDarwin said:

I am not really interested in this, but I don't hate it either.

Give me a sport package on the 3.  Base 2.5L engine, 6 speed, limited slip, and a slightly tuned suspension/wider wheels/tires and I would find that far more appealing.

an interesting point is whether it has an actual LSD, like the GTI does (maybe it said, I missed it). Lack of one would be a deal-killer in a FWD car with this kind of power, at least to me. 

irish44j (Forum Supporter)
irish44j (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
7/9/20 8:47 p.m.
eastsideTim said:

In reply to CyberEric :

They’ll likely beat the GTI in one metric- trips to the dealer for stupid issues.  My wife loves driving her Mk7 GTI, but its problems have caused her to swear off modern German cars completely.

knock on wood, I've had zero issues with mine in the fist 2 years/30k of ownership. That said, the 6 year/72k warranty makes me not really care. 

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
7/9/20 9:01 p.m.
irish44j (Forum Supporter) said:
eastsideTim said:

In reply to CyberEric :

They’ll likely beat the GTI in one metric- trips to the dealer for stupid issues.  My wife loves driving her Mk7 GTI, but its problems have caused her to swear off modern German cars completely.

knock on wood, I've had zero issues with mine in the fist 2 years/30k of ownership. That said, the 6 year/72k warranty makes me not really care. 

She got a 5/100 extended warranty it, so it hasn’t cost much in the way of money, but it’s just the time and inconvenience factor, including one point where she had a Crosstrek loaner for a few weeks while waiting for parts.

CyberEric
CyberEric Dork
7/9/20 9:07 p.m.

In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :

Nowhere have I read that this new 3 has an LSD, I think he was saying he wants one in this hypothetical sporty version of the 2.5 NA car.

I assume the turbo 3 will not have a LSD because Mazda doesn't make one for any other car, with the exception of the miata, which is a totally different drivetrain.

Mazda seems to be expanding the CX-9 drivetrain across the line-up. Very little more. It's nice, and I'm sure this car will be good, it's just not likely to be anything that will get our blood moving like a GTI/Si competitor. I hope I'm wrong, and I'm sad about it, but this is the reality of Mazda now. Basically, I'm happy we get something, but I do wish it was more.

irish44j (Forum Supporter)
irish44j (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
7/9/20 9:23 p.m.
CyberEric said:

In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :

Nowhere have I read that this new 3 has an LSD, I think he was saying he wants one in this hypothetical sporty version of the 2.5 NA car.

I assume the turbo 3 will not have a LSD because Mazda doesn't make one for any other car, with the exception of the miata, which is a totally different drivetrain.

Mazda seems to be expanding the CX-9 drivetrain across the line-up. Very little more. It's nice, and I'm sure this car will be good, it's just not likely to be anything that will get our blood moving like a GTI/Si competitor. I hope I'm wrong, and I'm sad about it, but this is the reality of Mazda now. Basically, I'm happy we get something, but I do wish it was more.

yeah, that's what I figured, just making sure. One more strike against it in the class where the competition has LSD - not that the majority of buyers know what that is anyhow lol. 

On a semi-related note, when we bought our CX-9, we drove the current generation one (with the turbo motor) and ended up buying the previous-gen one (with the Ford V6), which I thought was a much better driver in most respects, including the powertrain. YMMV. I'm sure the new one gets better MPGs.....

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