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Colin Wood
Colin Wood Associate Editor
10/19/21 8:00 a.m.
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“The best-handling, best-equipped and most fun-to-drive Civic Si ever.” That’s how Honda describes its brand-new 2022 Civic Si.

Now in its 11th generation, the Si retains its only choice of a six-speed manual transmission, but now is now only available as a four-door sedan.

What’s new for 2022? Honda says the 1.5-liter turbo from the previous generation has been updated …

Read the rest of the story

Duke
Duke MegaDork
10/19/21 8:02 a.m.

*ahem*

 

Less power.  Fewer horsepower.

 

Thank you.

 

malibuguy
malibuguy GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
10/19/21 8:30 a.m.

I would highly consider one if something were to happen to both my yaris and my highlander.  but even then...I aint rich

buzzboy
buzzboy Dork
10/19/21 9:00 a.m.
Duke said:

*ahem*

 

Less power.  Fewer horsepower.

 

Thank you.

 

200<205

200 is less than 205

The hill I'll die on, but thankfully for all others, I'll be dead

maschinenbau
maschinenbau GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
10/19/21 9:08 a.m.

The move from N/A K to 1.5 turbo and lack of 2 door completely eliminated Honda from my new car shopping list this year. The 10th and 11th gen stylings have such awkward, bloaty proportions. I think 9th gen Si was peak Honda until we have full electric Civics and they hopefully fix the styling. Gotta admit though, that interior is really nice with the horizontal grill thing and actual real KNOBS. 

pinchvalve (Forum Supporter)
pinchvalve (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/19/21 9:17 a.m.

Less power, no hatchback, nothing exciting going on here at all. Major yawn.

pres589 (djronnebaum)
pres589 (djronnebaum) UltimaDork
10/19/21 9:18 a.m.

Peak Honda styling happened around 1995.  This car looks like they tried to have a classy, mild evolution over the previous car, which was pretty garish.  I generally like the idea of one of these but I wonder about the price.  Like I doubt I could get one with a sunroof for under $30k.  Curious what other colors will be available.  I like turbos well enough but I agree that a 2.0 K-series would be my preference.  

The mpg's, both on sticker and what I assume the real-world would be, would be a nice improvement over my SX4.  Same with performance.  Same with NVH and general comfort.  I just don't know if I want to take on a car payment again, or at least right now.  

EDIT: Wait, I thought they used the hatch body for this.  Why not??? They look the same!  What's the point of this car?

dculberson
dculberson MegaDork
10/19/21 9:21 a.m.
Duke said:

*ahem*

 

Less power.  Fewer horsepower.

 

Thank you.

 

Interesting. I never thought about it. "Fewer" is used if the thing is countable, but you're not counting horsepower, you're measuring it. According to dictionary.com, "Less is used for singular mass nouns." So you could say "fewer horsepowers," but you would say "less horsepower." Since we don't pluralize horsepower, less is indeed correct, in my opinion.

https://www.dictionary.com/e/fewer-vs-less/

 

pointofdeparture
pointofdeparture GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
10/19/21 9:36 a.m.
pres589 (djronnebaum) said:

EDIT: Wait, I thought they used the hatch body for this.  Why not??? They look the same!  What's the point of this car?

No Si hatch for many years now. If you want a hot Civic hatch, you buy the Type-R.

You can buy a Civic Sport hatch with the 2.0 K and 6-speed, which it sounds like is what you want, so you're covered there.

I think it's great that Honda is even offering this, even if I'd also only consider it as a hatchback. I also like that you get a real helical LSD instead of the electronic ones included in most new FWD sporty cars.

I'm holding out for the Integra, which is hopefully basically this, but with a hatch.

Colin Wood
Colin Wood Associate Editor
10/19/21 9:37 a.m.

Since I think the consensus (at least around the office) seems to be that the new Integra will be a hatchback version of the Si, this, or the next-gen Integra?

STM317
STM317 UberDork
10/19/21 9:54 a.m.

I'm not a buyer for this type of car, but I think this one looks better inside and out than the last one. But there's really no excuse for not having a liftback. This vestigial trunk seems like it would be a royal pain to load/unload:

2022 Honda Civic Si

 

The only reason that makes sense to me to offer this as a sedan only, is to try and upsell people to a liftback Integra

Duke
Duke MegaDork
10/19/21 9:58 a.m.
buzzboy said:
Duke said:

*ahem*

Less power.  Fewer horsepower.

Thank you.

200<205

200 is less than 205

The hill I'll die on, but thankfully for all others, I'll be dead

You are correct, 200 is less than 205.  But since "horsepower" is an incremental unit that is counted to quantify a specific amount, the correct word is fewer.

If you have a recipe for soup that calls for 8 cups of water and you only put in 6, you put in less water, but you put in fewer cups of water.

Here endeth the lesson.

 

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
10/19/21 10:01 a.m.

In reply to Colin Wood :

Yeah, Civic Si sedan or Integra hatchback? And will they have similar drivelines?

dculberson
dculberson MegaDork
10/19/21 10:15 a.m.
Duke said:

You are correct, 200 is less than 205.  But since "horsepower" is an incremental unit that is counted to quantify a specific amount, the correct word is fewer.

If you have a recipe for soup that calls for 8 cups of water and you only put in 6, you put in less water, but you put in fewer cups of water.

Here endeth the lesson.

 

See my post above. You say "cups of water" - plural - so it's fewer, but you say "horsepower" - note singular - so you use less.

BLRB
BLRB GRM+ Memberand New Reader
10/19/21 11:25 a.m.

I've had a 2020 Civic Si sedan for over a year now and think this is a good evolution.  The updates address the changes I would want on my car.  More torque earlier and power doesn't drop off as fast in the 2022 up top.  Also, a lighter flywheel with hopefully a sprung clutch would help with rev hang.  While I would have bought a Si hatch if they had one, the sedan has been ok for my space needs.  If they keep it around $25K, I think it will still be a good bargain.

pres589 (djronnebaum)
pres589 (djronnebaum) UltimaDork
10/19/21 11:37 a.m.

In reply to pointofdeparture :

If the Sport was available with a sunroof... But you're right, that's close.

Or I cross shop to the GTI.  If I actually did something, but this is probably a few years down the road.

Datsun310Guy
Datsun310Guy MegaDork
10/19/21 11:43 a.m.

In reply to BLRB :

$25k?  The last one pushed that.  

I'm betting on $26-$29k and the Type R pushing $39k.

captdownshift (Forum Supporter)
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/19/21 11:46 a.m.

Integra, because hatch 

 

The few fewer horsepower isn't a bother as a proper limited slip and improved suspension geometry is a bigger part of the equation to me. If you're merely chasing horsepower, you'd be getting an N something. Honda is smart enough to know their niche is a functional, reliable drivers car, not chasing numbers in a horsepower war. 

Driven5
Driven5 UltraDork
10/19/21 11:53 a.m.

Other sources are reporting that they have indeed kept the helical LSD. So on top of the manual transmission, that's very good news.

However, I am mildly disappointed at how conservative they seem to have been with this one though. I feel like more often than not they have at least tried to move the bar a bit with each subsequent gen of the Si. So far this one sounds like the previous gen Si treatment mostly copy-and-pasted to the new gen Civic. More like a mid-cycle refresh than something 'all-new' in that regard. 

Don't get me wrong, that's not to say it's bad in any way. As a standalone item I still think it's a refreshing departure from the vast majority of what else is out there, and actually rather like it... Especially in that color. But as a new generation of the Si, it also still strikes me as more heavily scripted when compared to previous generations.

Does anybody know if Honda ever fixed the 1.5T's problem with dumping large quantities of gas into the oil?

Duke
Duke MegaDork
10/19/21 12:12 p.m.
dculberson said:
Duke said:

You are correct, 200 is less than 205.  But since "horsepower" is an incremental unit that is counted to quantify a specific amount, the correct word is fewer.

If you have a recipe for soup that calls for 8 cups of water and you only put in 6, you put in less water, but you put in fewer cups of water.

Here endeth the lesson.

See my post above. You say "cups of water" - plural - so it's fewer, but you say "horsepower" - note singular - so you use less.

I was never taught that rule, but I will look into it.  Thank you for the link and information.

And apologies to Colin if I am wrong!

 

Junghole
Junghole SuperDork
10/19/21 12:22 p.m.

Really... 300rpm. Just hilarious how automotive manufacturers will attempt to put a positive spin on anything.
 

It makes less power, at less RPM, and the same amount of torque, the only supposedly good thing is that it comes 300 RPMs earlier. And That's not even enough to make a difference at autocross.
 

It sounds like there was some sort of tuning software glitch and that resulted in the change, and instead of fixing it they just went ahead and told everybody that they "improved" the engine. 

Slippery
Slippery GRM+ Memberand UberDork
10/19/21 12:31 p.m.

I actually really like it. Hatchback would be preferred for convenience reasons, but looks-wise they are almost the same. 

This + a Hondata tune and I bet it will be seeing 275hp. 
 

madmrak351
madmrak351 New Reader
10/19/21 12:39 p.m.

Math is quantitative. English is irritative. If I understand what you meant you have succeeded in communication. Isn’t that the purpose of language.

madmrak351
madmrak351 New Reader
10/19/21 12:39 p.m.

Math is quantitative. English is irritative. If I understand what you meant you have succeeded in communication. Isn’t that the purpose of language.

madmrak351
madmrak351 New Reader
10/19/21 12:39 p.m.

Math is quantitative. English is irritative. If I understand what you meant you have succeeded in communication. Isn’t that the purpose of language.

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