It's crazy. Same with houses. The old "live below your means" rules like don't buy a house for more than 3x you gross income... seem impossible in 2022 where I live.
Likewise, cars. I can technically "afford" more but I just have a philosophical hang up about spending over $400/month on a car. There are not many options left for me right now so we are definitely hanging on to what we've got.
Keith Tanner said:In reply to rob_lewis :
That friend of mine who sold his Taco and bought an H3? He's a Realtor(TM). He keeps going on about how much you can sell your house for so you should list it. But then I'd have to replace it, and I don't want to live in the equivalent of an H3 :)
The "other" problem with selling an old house.. is your old house probably has some property tax rules that prevent them skyrocketing every year.
If you sell and buy another house - you have very clearly reset the value and thus the tax basis. Selling an old house at a high value and getting a new one seems great until your taxes are also tripled..
May have been exchange rate. Metric gauges didn't hurt, and the Canadian cars had a very different option mix. But I suspect it was exchange rate.
In reply to Snrub :
"*Almost* anyone currently buying a used vehicle is on crack. In the overwhelming majority of cases a vehicle is repairable."
Problem can be a) getting parts, and b) finding someone to work on it. Plus, c) the specter of unknown repair bills that can be in the thousands of dollers vs. a known payment of $xxx per month, and d) the unhinged feeling of being without a needed car for an unknown amount of time. Most humans (that aren't car people like us) simply aren't accustomed to and can't deal with the stress of these things.
My credit union is still offering 1.9% on new and used cars less than 10 years old. I think the 10 year thing is fairly standard. So if you have a <10 year old car to sell, you can get a decent price for it, because the money's cheap. For 10+ year old cars, they either need to be paid for in cash, or with a personal loan- which is usually 8% or more.
I replaced my truck last summer, and searched for months to find something. Prices were what I thought were insane than. Turns out what I bought then is already worth 2-3000 more now.
I have a 2018 Mazda3 with 42,000 on it that the dealer keeps sending me emails to try to buy from me for a few thousand less than what I paid for it 3-1/2 years ago. The problem is, as many have said, what do I replace it with?
If you want to be amused, go hang out on brand-specific groups/forums. Someone will post a vehicle for sale at current market pricing and the peanut gallery loses their collective heads.
The monthly payment on my used 2017 GC purchased back in 2018 was fairly high - $580/mo. But that was partly because I wanted a fairly short loan time - 3 years. I doubt I could get more than I paid for it today with some 65K miles added, but at the same time I'd then have to buy something to replace it, so I won't. I'm hoping the white whale E-350 will at least sell for what I have into it - because hashtag vanlife... I "might" part with the MINI if the price was right, but I really don't like being without a decent back-up car. So someone would have to offer me at least what I paid for it almost 5 years and 17K miles ago. And since I arguably overpaid for a car I knew, that is not likely.
All that said, I'm definitely glad to not be shopping for a vehicle right now.
In reply to ddavidv :
Dude, have you looked at the prices of 60s-70s-80s pickup trucks? They were bonkers before the shortage.
Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:I'm hoping the white whale E-350 will at least sell for what I have into it - because hashtag vanlife...
Link to classified ad?
Keith Tanner said:In reply to rob_lewis :
That friend of mine who sold his Taco and bought an H3? He's a Realtor(TM). He keeps going on about how much you can sell your house for so you should list it. But then I'd have to replace it, and I don't want to live in the equivalent of an H3 :)
An H3 is about as big as my current house. So it's possible, if undesirable.
Like your friend, I sold a pre-pandemic Civic Si for way more than I paid for it, and used the money to buy a used ND Miata. Please keep a set of those Fox coilovers on the shelf for me this spring.
volvoclearinghouse said:In reply to Snrub :
"*Almost* anyone currently buying a used vehicle is on crack. In the overwhelming majority of cases a vehicle is repairable."
Problem can be a) getting parts, and b) finding someone to work on it. Plus, c) the specter of unknown repair bills that can be in the thousands of dollers vs. a known payment of $xxx per month, and d) the unhinged feeling of being without a needed car for an unknown amount of time. Most humans (that aren't car people like us) simply aren't accustomed to and can't deal with the stress of these things.
As a car guy, I felt this. Son and I took a trip to Houston in my newly acquired used Mazda a few weeks ago. Wife called me about 2/3rds of the way into our trip to tell me the truck wouldn't start, so it looked liked she'd be stuck without a car for the weekend. Truck finally started (after an hour of her cussing it), but the stress was real.
There was a brief time there that I seriously considered saying berk-it and just bite the bullet and cost (we're still repairing credit) and buy a newish car I didn't have to worry about. The payments and insurance would have been outrageous and would have stressed me out, but not stressing about "will we have a running car today" almost won out.
I could totally see someone who knows zilch about fixing a car choosing a new or newish one over fixing just to reduce the stress.
-Rob
rob_lewis said:I could totally see someone who knows zilch about fixing a car choosing a new or newish one over fixing just to reduce the stress.
-Rob
Even for those of us who can fix cars, having one that just plain works is really nice. Sometimes you just want to get somewhere without the risk of an adventure.
In reply to rob_lewis :
There is also the concern about throwing good money after bad.
As an example, we replaced the transmission in my sons SX4 back in the fall because it had a bearing fail ($300 for trans and $350 for clutch and flywheel). Now it has a rod knock.
I'm willing to risk an afternoon and $100 replacing the bearings (if I can get any) and then seeing how long will last, but beyond that I wonder if it's worth it anymore. Used engines are $1200, plus the time to R&R, so that is a lot to spend with the question of "what's next?" In the back of my mind.
Those are great motors with a horrible tune. That's what kills them
This discussion made me want to look up the car that we bought a bit over a year ago for grins .. a 2018 Acura TLX with a clean history, Acura certified, and 15k miles on it. We got it back then for $26k, which I though was a boatload of money, probably too much, but it was super clean, had a great maintenance history, was a local car (meaning not imported from NY, PA, or upper OH like alot of used cars seem to be here in SW OH), and my wife really liked it. I am now seeing the same vintage TLX for sale today, (but a 2019), same powertrain, same trim level, same mileage, also Acura certified at the same Acura dealer for $10k more. Dang ...
This really makes me hope the Accord that I took over from her (150k miles) and the old Civic that our daughter drives when home (175k miles) keep chugging along for quite some time. I'd love to replace the Accord with a new BRZ, but I cannot see that happening anytime in 2022, maybe not even in 2023.
In reply to Keith Tanner and No Time :
Having a car that just "works" is such a huge stress relief. I realized it the day I bought the Mazda as I was driving around running errands. It makes a huge difference to be able to relax, concentrate on driving and sing along to the radio rather than watching every gauge like a hawk, listening and smelling for any weirdness, making sure to plan a little early to brake in case they're mushy this time, being careful to not romp on the throttle too much an pop a motor, waiting a few seconds when putting it in gear before letting off the brake pedal, etc.
I love working on cars. But when you go for two months having to do some work on a car every weekend just so you have something to drive the next week, it's tiring.
-Rob
Keith Tanner said:rob_lewis said:I could totally see someone who knows zilch about fixing a car choosing a new or newish one over fixing just to reduce the stress.
-Rob
Even for those of us who can fix cars, having one that just plain works is really nice. Sometimes you just want to get somewhere without the risk of an adventure.
Right on, guys. That's why I bought my first new car, the Mazda 3, in 2018. Back then I was doing 20-25k miles per year. Having a reliable, comfortable new shiny fun-to-drive car to cover those miles was well worth the ~400 dollars per month payment and insurance. Even now that my annual mileage is about 1/3 that, and I've been contemplating taking advantage of the hot market to sell the Mazda, it's still worth that to me for the convenience, and for when I do have to get somewhere without adding the worry about something breaking.
I've been trying to convince my brother that this is the way, too. Right now he has 3 or 4 "fully depreciated" vehicles in a rotating collection of garbage he uses for daily transportation. Stuff is rusted and always breaking. He's a couple of years younger than me- about where I was when I made that leap to the new car. But the myth of the sunk costs is hard to shake, and with the market right now being the absolute worst time to buy, it's tough.
Than again, stuff like this is still popping up on occassion:
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1350994458698867/
Yesterday, my wife read the following text to me from one of her friends...
"I desperately need to buy a car ASAP...could you please ask Brett if he'll help me find a good deal (2016 or newer - no more than 60K miles - 10 to 15 thousand budget"
Um, I spent 9.5K buying my own daughter a 2011 Kia Sportage with 75K miles just a few months ago because I too was "desperate".
I'll do what I can (her daughter and my daughter have been BFF's since they were three months old, she's a single mom and she hasn't been right since her son killed himself two years ago) but desperate and good deal never belong in a sentence together; never.
The only car I'd consider selling now is the R, which is worth almost what I paid for it 2.5 years ago. Issue is, like many have pointed out, what I'd replace it with. Complicating the matter is it's my sole winter DD, so I can't get rid of it and take my time shopping. I may have something up my sleeve to replace it with in the Spring, have to see if that happens or not.
eastsideTim said:Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:I'm hoping the white whale E-350 will at least sell for what I have into it - because hashtag vanlife...
Link to classified ad?
Eventually... after I can get it cleaned up and getting it to start more reliability.
Appleseed said:In reply to ddavidv :
Dude, have you looked at the prices of 60s-70s-80s pickup trucks? They were bonkers before the shortage.
Been following for years. I had a '65 F100 I now question the intelligence of selling. Currently have a '93 Lightning I'm very 'meh' about. Would love a dentside but have watched them triple in value in a decade. My Lightning is worth over 2x what I paid for it six or seven years ago. It's insane.
Just curious, what is happening on your side of the border with ~10 year old cars? I'm trying to wrap my head around what's happening locally, and how it's related to what's going on down there.
We didn't really see the new car shortage and empty dealer lots until well after I was reading about it on here. Shopping in the ~10 year old/beater range currently I have a lot of options. I wonder if I'm going to kick myself in the ass for not jumping on one of them 3-6 months from now
In reply to Mr. Peabody :
The original article implies the customer in question bought a 2013 Scion with 160k miles for $7,500. For 2013 that would likely be a Scion xD (Corolla, engined, wagon-like) or Scion xB (Camry engined, wagon-like.) My guess would be that in pre-pandemic pricing this would have been a $4-$5k car in USD.
Further in the article they state the opinion: "What used to be a $5,000 car,” the car dealer said, “is now $8,000. What used to be $8,000 is now $11,000 or $12,000.” I agree with those numbers. Furthermore, I believe that what was once $3k via private party is now $5k (at least.)
I was more or less wondering how the private experience is. The cars I'm looking at, the difference between private, and dealer is roughly 75% -100% right now, and being a car guy, and a cheapass I don't usually shop dealers for 10 year old cars
I have no previous knowledge of these cars and their prices pre-pandemic
In reply to Mr. Peabody :
From my GRMer mindset. It used to be that $3k bought me a good "driver". Sure the car might need some updating and a good cleaning, etc but $3k bought me a "good car". That same car is now $5k, at least.
My last sale unaffected by Covid...
2003 Pontiac Vibe w/ 67k miles and awd. Rebuilt salvage but minor damage. Sold for $4,300
Today: Similar Vibe awd asking $5,900 with 128k. Sure, not rebuild but also higher miles (let those two negate each other.)
Another Vibe asking $4k but 225k
$3,300 but 186k miles
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