RoughandReady
RoughandReady Reader
2/24/14 4:57 p.m.

So, side by side, what's the difference between these two 16 valves? Besides the valve angle and the price.

Original 4AGE: 112 hp at 6600

Late 4AGE: 126 hp at 6600

Original 4AFE: ~100 hp at ~6k

Late 4AFE: ~115 at ~6k

With a 10 hp diffence, the G seems like it's not really worth the drifto tax in stock form. What's the F missing? Compression? Revs? Bad ports? No aftermarket?

Swank Force One
Swank Force One MegaDork
2/24/14 5:02 p.m.

Head design. "F" is Toyota's code for "Economy" or something similar. "G" heads often have Yamaha's sticky fingers in the pot.

SyntheticBlinkerFluid
SyntheticBlinkerFluid PowerDork
2/24/14 5:13 p.m.

The "F" is a Single Cam Gear turning two camshafts.

The "G" is a single cam gear for each cam.

RoughandReady
RoughandReady Reader
2/24/14 5:17 p.m.

In reply to SyntheticBlinkerFluid:

This I do know. Slave cam like a 3SFE. Does the slave cam design inherently suck performance?

SyntheticBlinkerFluid
SyntheticBlinkerFluid PowerDork
2/24/14 6:25 p.m.

In reply to RoughandReady:

I would think it would. There is very little performance potential with the 4AFE.

Its like Swank said, its a Head for economy.

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess MegaDork
2/24/14 6:30 p.m.

Do you want enough power to get you around and good gas mileage or a bunch of power and OK gas mileage? A 4AF AE92 can get 40 MPG. A 20V 4AG AE92 gets <30. The 20V AE92 will out run anything but the big players.

RoughandReady
RoughandReady Reader
2/24/14 6:51 p.m.

In reply to Dr. Hess:

My dreams of 20v insanity are being grounded by a sudden dip in income.

Now I'm starting to think about lowly 4AFE's that are a dime a dozen at junk yards, seem to run until the end of time, and get really good mileage. The hope is with a little work and good gears, an FE could make for an economical, yet still fun, driver.

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess MegaDork
2/24/14 7:15 p.m.

In a relatively light weight car like the AE92, a 4AFE is an economical, yet fun driver. It will get you around and you can always swap it out for a 20v or a 4AGZE (supercharged 16v.)

RoughandReady
RoughandReady Reader
2/24/14 7:21 p.m.

In reply to Dr. Hess:

Enough gains, you think, to be worth swapping out a 4AC for a 4AF or 4AFE in an AE82?

SyntheticBlinkerFluid
SyntheticBlinkerFluid PowerDork
2/24/14 7:28 p.m.

For sure. I drove my 4AF powered wagon to a 4AFE powered sedan and it was like a night and day difference.

A 4AC to a 4AFE will be like you threw a supercharger in.

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess MegaDork
2/24/14 7:58 p.m.

Yeah, 4AF v. 4AC is no comparison.

RoughandReady
RoughandReady Reader
2/24/14 8:22 p.m.

Any differences between the 4AF and 4AFE besides the carb/fi and power? As much as I'd like the EFI, a 4AF should be a weekend swap for 4AC. haha.

HappyAndy
HappyAndy SuperDork
2/24/14 8:28 p.m.

In reply to RoughandReady:

So did you buy the white 'rolla with a bad engine that was in the $2014 classifieds ?

RoughandReady
RoughandReady Reader
2/24/14 8:51 p.m.

In reply to HappyAndy:

Different white rolla. A little liftback.

carbon
carbon HalfDork
2/24/14 9:39 p.m.

Toyota engine code breakdown: first number is the chronological order of development of the second character (or in some cases set of characters) is the family of engine (designated by 1 or 2 letters) then followed by a letter to designate head design intention, either a g (performance) or f (economy). Then if there is a power adder either a z designating a supercharger or a t designation a turbocharger (2 ts for twins) and an e to indicate fuel injection.

for instance, a 2jzgtte is the 2nd iteration (2) of the jz family engine with a performance head (g) and two turbos (tt) and fuel injection (e)

or 4 (as in 4th gen), a ( as in a series family of engines), g (cause its the cool one) e (cause it's injected) 4age or 4agze (if it's blown)

RoughandReady
RoughandReady Reader
2/24/14 9:46 p.m.

In reply to carbon:

Yes, I'm not that much a stranger to Toyota. I've had a TE72 Corolla and my Camry. Got to be honest, I liked the Camry better.

There's specs all over the internet. But I'd rather have it first hand, you know? Like how it feels to have a 4AF over a 4AC. The fun is in the feel more than the numbers, I think.

4AF might be the swap. Cheap and easy. Should pair well with a C52. Maybe swap in EFI later. According to the numbers, the torque peaks a lot more in the midrange with the 4AF than the 4AFE. Not sure if that really comes through in real world driving. I guess if I have two engines with the same torque, I'd rather have it earlier. Only 95 hp, but I really hate wiring.

atm92484
atm92484 New Reader
2/24/14 10:03 p.m.

I was considering one for the Locost years ago but if I'm remembering it correctly the ports in the head are small. I never got much further - makes me wonder if a little grinding wouldn't yield more performance. Fundamentally the cam layout shouldn't limit much. You really just need enough air and fuel to get into the cylinder and neither cares how it happens.

Kenny_McCormic
Kenny_McCormic UberDork
2/24/14 10:08 p.m.
SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote: The "F" is a Single Cam Gear turning two camshafts.

Question I'm sure somebody here can answer, whats with the cut in the slave cam gear on all the F headed twin cam Toyota motors? Some sort of zero backlash system?

RoughandReady
RoughandReady Reader
2/24/14 10:51 p.m.

In reply to Kenny_McCormic:

I think that's the idea. A guy I used to do machine work with told me about it once, but honestly I don't remember the details.

To atm: I don't think I'll mind the small ports on the street. Should offer more mid-range, right?

SyntheticBlinkerFluid
SyntheticBlinkerFluid PowerDork
2/25/14 4:55 a.m.

In reply to RoughandReady:

Honestly, if you can get a 4AFE, I'd just get it and save the hassle. I had to rebuild the Carb on my 4AF and it was a huge pain in the ass.

I will give it this though, that engine liked to rev.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
2/25/14 6:39 a.m.
RoughandReady wrote: Any differences between the 4AF and 4AFE besides the carb/fi and power? As much as I'd like the EFI, a 4AF should be a weekend swap for 4AC. haha.

The power comes from a different head design...and a bunch of parts are different. But to greatly simplify it the only real differences are carb/FI and power. The 4AF(E) has zero aftermarket and just about zero potential, the 4AGE has plenty of both. The 4AF(E) isn't too bad though, it'll still be a lively car.

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