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curtis73
curtis73 GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
11/13/10 10:29 a.m.

I'm seriously lacking in resources for new and used race parts.

Links anyone?

curtis73
curtis73 GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
11/13/10 10:39 a.m.
STS_ZX2 wrote:

BTW... I chubbed up a little when I saw this. That is the look I want. The stance is perfect, doesn't need fender flares, totally perfect.

Now imagine mine with Subaru Blue paint and polished aluminum basket spoke wheels.

... and the girl needs about 6 more years before I can legally comment on her.

tuna55
tuna55 Dork
11/13/10 10:48 a.m.

The Pontiac 389 weighed something between 550 and 625 from the factory. Ditch the manifolds, the iron intake, the iron heads and you're down in the low 500s easily. Seriously.

curtis73
curtis73 GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
11/13/10 11:40 a.m.
tuna55 wrote: The Pontiac 389 weighed something between 550 and 625 from the factory. Ditch the manifolds, the iron intake, the iron heads and you're down in the low 500s easily. Seriously.

Very true, but if I'm going to spend that kind of money, how about this...

tuna55
tuna55 Dork
11/13/10 12:10 p.m.

Well that's certainly nice looking, but I have no idea what it is. The stuff I mentioned isn't exactly expensive. Were you planning to use stock heads, manifolds and stuff? I figured you'd want to actually make some power anyway. As long as you're throwing the weak stuff in the trash bin, might as well start with something that makes sense. That last article I mentioned used some amazing heads (not Edelbrock) for that thing and it sung. That's 75% of the difference between a LT1 and an LS1 anyway. Even if you were going for and LS1, you'd have to get some better heads because there just isn't any downside other than a few grand. You specified you didn't want an LS style engine, though, so you can't exactly compare the 389 to an LS1. Sure a Viper engine makes more power than a stock 389 (but a stock Viper engine would be about the same as the 389 that I would build for it) but the Viper engine weighs a bunch more than the LS1 and is much bigger. It has less transmission options etc. Since it seems that the LS series is the pinnacle of engine technology at our price point, it's not exactly fair to compare against them since you're not going to use one. Compare the 389 instead to another odd engine. I assume you wouldn't be looking at anything small block or big block either, too common. You really haven't named any other engines to compare against (other than the pretty BMW V12 mystery in your last post). I am pretty sure a well built 389 would outperform the V12 without megabucks being involved. If not a 389, then a spin on a turbo V6 engine would be neat. Think Pontiac version of the GNX. You could even use the 301, but it really wasn't a great engine. Turbos and stuff are heavy, so a V8 turbo would be way way out.

tuna55
tuna55 Dork
11/13/10 12:27 p.m.

Just found the car craft article. It's a 400 with a stroker crank and Roland heads and a single plane with a Holley 1050 (bonus points if you use one on the street). It made 650 hp at 7,000 RPM. Not too bad.

minimac
minimac SuperDork
11/13/10 5:04 p.m.
curtis73 wrote: I'm seriously lacking in resources for new and used race parts. Links anyone?

http://www.partspeddlernews.net/nationalpartspea.html

GPS- Before the bigger nascar shops started building their own, a lot of them used Laughlins. Old Winston Cup cars could be had really reasonably. I'm pretty sure that was the route Gene Felton, Irv Herr and others used.

curtis73
curtis73 GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
11/14/10 1:10 a.m.
tuna55 wrote: ...with a Holley 1050 (bonus points if you use one on the street).

Jerry McGuire reference... You had me at "1050"...

curtis73
curtis73 GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
11/16/10 9:23 a.m.

By the way... spoke with mike at gmachinechassis.com. SUPER NICE GUY. Very helpful and forthcoming with information.

I'm saving my pennies.

Cotton
Cotton Dork
11/16/10 10:05 a.m.
curtis73 wrote:
BoxheadTim wrote: I assume you're talking dog leg shift like this? R 2 4 1 3 5
Actually I'm talking about a tranny with dog rings instead of synchros. Like rally racers use. You guys are coming up with some awesome ideas! I like the idea of a used race chassis. That Gmachinechassis.com is sweet. I'm also going to stick to my guns for now on the lighter engine. A fully dressed 400 pontiac is north of 700 lbs, but an LS1 is just north of 450 lbs. That's a big difference. I can't think of any lightweight engines that would be an easy swap (other than LS1) so I might stick with the Pontiac, but I'm pretty keen on going with a different engine. Think of it this way - if I'm keeping PS, PB, and AC, I want to give up weight elsewhere and the engine is a good place to shave weight.

I'd keep in Poncho powered, but that's just me. It's easy to add EFI to them. BTW a 455 weighs pretty much the same as a 400. I swapped the 400 in my 72 Firebird for a 455. I saved a lot of weight with shorty headers and an aluminum intake.....heads are next. Also you can go with an aluminum radiator.

RossD
RossD Dork
11/16/10 10:16 a.m.

Can the turbo motor from a firebird be morphed into a performer? Slap a Ford 8.8 IRS whole subframe in the back, too; lots of options for limited slip/lockers/gears ratios available.

Or if you want to be off your rocker, grab a V10 from a Dodge truck or Ford Truck and add some turbos.

curtis73
curtis73 GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
11/16/10 10:39 a.m.

The V10 from the dodge is an attractive option. Its basically a detuned iron version of the Viper V10. I could basically do the same as turning an LS truck block into an LS1 by adding the better heads. I'm having trouble finding weights on it, and (at least from preliminary research) it looks like getting it to "viper" spec 500 HP is going to be pretty expensive.... at least as expensive as simply buying a viper engine, but it does bear more investigation.

The ford V10 (in my opinion) is a pile of crap. Its much smaller than the dodge, but there are several head-related problems with them - spark plug threads that corrode and send the plugs through the hood, water pump/temperature problems that lead to head gasket failure, etc. I think if I want 6.8L of displacement, there are much wiser ways of getting it.... but a perfectly viable suggestion

I thought of BMW V12, but broken parts are expensive and they're not the beefiest of engines... and again, relatively small displacement.

I also looked into Toyota and Nissan truck V8s, but the lack of aftermarket support will make it tough to get the power I want.

bravenrace
bravenrace Dork
11/16/10 11:00 a.m.
tuna55 wrote:
curtis73 wrote:
Do it. Do it with Pontiac power - that's pretty good nowadays. Hot Rod has a seriously stout Poncho build up this month, but for road racing period correctness, I would totally make it a tri power 389. No cooler Pontiac engine existed on the streets.
I love me some Poncho power, but its heavy and long-stroked. If I'm dusting a Viper on an onramp, I want to hold it at 7000 rpm in third and have 500 rpm left to go when I roll on the throttle after the apex.
Don't underestimate those engines. Look in super stock for examples, they can easily be built to rev to whatever you want. I maintain that stroke doesn't preclude RPM, metallurgy does. Get good rods, a good crank, a girdle or some cross bolted mains and the valvetrain to match and 7500 will be no sweat, I promise. They're not really as RPM sensitive as Honda lovers would have you believe. Get awesome heads and a cam and it'll actually be useful up there too. The tri power when you pop the hood would be awesome. Just imagine that pissed off C5 Z06 owner who walks by in the paddock and looks under your hood. If he sees a Viper V10, he'll have an excuse. If he sees a carbureted (even if you covertly convert it to injection) 389 under there you're going to get some serious respect. They're not really any heavier than a small block either, and with aluminum heads, intake water pump, oil pan, and headers, you'll be surprised how much they don't weigh. Period correct is the way to go for this one.

I agree, although I personally think a 428 block with a 400 crank and a 4bbl would be the way to go, unless you are really good at tuning tir-power. In any case, stick with a Poncho engine. Anything else would just be wrong.

curtis73
curtis73 GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
11/16/10 11:26 a.m.

Kinda like the Caddy 500 I have in a 66 Bonneville, or the Duramax I'm planning on dropping in it... or the 65 Scout I have that is getting a Mercedes diesel... or the 87 Cutlass that I dropped in a Ford 302... or the ...

I won't continue

I have nothing against the Pontiac, I'm just exploring options at this point. If I come across something else that trips my trigger and is more suitable I'll run with it, if not I'll keep it simple with something like a 455.

slantvaliant
slantvaliant Dork
11/16/10 1:59 p.m.
curtis73 wrote:
tuna55 wrote: I agree! So you want a Pontiac version of this: http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicles/hdrp_0605_1964_holman_moody_ford_fairlane/index.html
Exactly, but with four seats, A/C, and carpet

More like a roadgoing Pontiac version of another PONTIAC

pres589
pres589 HalfDork
11/16/10 5:29 p.m.

Dog box on the street sounds pretty horrible really.

Capt Slow
Capt Slow HalfDork
11/16/10 5:33 p.m.

If you really want to avoid the LS1, why not an LS2 out of an '06 GTO?

Feedyurhed
Feedyurhed HalfDork
11/16/10 7:12 p.m.
curtis73 wrote: Kinda like the Caddy 500 I have in a 66 Bonneville, or the Duramax I'm planning on dropping in it... or the 65 Scout I have that is getting a Mercedes diesel... or the 87 Cutlass that I dropped in a Ford 302... or the ... I won't continue I have nothing against the Pontiac, I'm just exploring options at this point. If I come across something else that trips my trigger and is more suitable I'll run with it, if not I'll keep it simple with something like a 455.

You sure have some interesting projects in the pipeline........how about some pics? It's cold here now so I need to draw inspiration anywhere I can find it. I am liking the Scout/MB thingy.

curtis73
curtis73 GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
11/16/10 10:24 p.m.

Forgiveness, please... but you opened a can of worms when you asked about my projects

The scout is currently a rusty pile of nothingness. It was discovered with a tree growing through it in a field in PA. I got it for free and its almost worth that much. The Mercedes donor is an '83 SD and its currently sitting in the field beside it. It was T-boned with 79k and I picked it up for $250.

The Cutlass was never quite completed. I had the 302 physically in place with a C4 behind it (with plans for an AOD in the future) but never had the driveshaft made. Some chump came by and offered me about twice what it was worth so I let it go. Last I heard he was planning a 400M for it. Don't worry, its not a real 442, it just had the appearance package. The biggest obstacle was the oil pan, but a couple weekends with a welder and a cut-off wheel...

The Bonneville has been a labor of love. 14 bolt rear axle, 3/4 ton front spindles and brakes, GVOD. The caddy 500 engine and tranny have been yanked and instead I'm going with a Duramax/4L80E.

Here is one I built along with the nearly-famous Spencer Getty. This was when we worked at Sakowski Motors together and we put it together from cast-off parts for nearly free. The cab and bed were cast-offs from a customer's car, as was the 1971 LT-1 350 from a Chevelle. The steering box is 1963 Olds and the column is a shortened unit from a 39 Buick. The rear axle is from some unidentified Chrysler product, and the tranny is a TH350 that he and I built. If you feather the throttle real easy, it actually has all three gears. The throttle pedal was a bent airbrake pushrod from an old bus.

This was a 62 Caddy with an interesting story. My buddy told me one night that he was really wanting a caddy with fins, so I should keep my eyes out for one. One night at around midnight, I refreshed a craigslist page and there it said, "62 SDV $1500." I called immediately. Next thing I know I'm driving from Pasadena to Watts with my flatbed behind my 73 Impala Wagon (see following vehicle). He told me that it was in rough shape and pointed out that he used about three wheelbarrows of bondo to slap over rust holes and dents and then rattle-canned it. I tried calling my buddy to make sure he wanted it before I handed over the cash, but he didn't answer. I figured I'd grab it and if he didn't want it I'd keep it for myself. Then one weekend we were in Vegas and I asked him if he was going to buy it from me. He said if he wins $1500 in Vegas, he'll buy it. Ten minutes later I had $1500 in my hand. If I'm lying, I'm dying. He walked over to a roulette table, plopped some chip on black 8 and it hit. He let it all ride on black and it hit again. Two spins and he had $1600. He left $100 for the dealer, cashed the rest, and handed it to me. We hacked a coil from each spring and shaved the door handles. Perfect.

The 73 Impala Station Wagon to which I alluded was a true barn find. 454, A/C, and that's it. The old man had covered the seats and carpet with clear vinyl. He bought it for when his boys went to college, and when they were done he parked it in a barn under an army canvas. 58,000 original miles. It still had the original bald bias ply nylon tires on it. I bought four tires in L.A., rented a Neon, drove to Hobbs, NM, put the four tires on it, got it started, and drove it home. I converted it into an RV with an isolated (switchable for charging) deep cycle battery in the back, a hard-wired inverter with plugs in the back and front, an outlet that was wired to an extension cord (in case we had a 120v plug somewhere) and massaged the 454 into a 468 that made somewhere north of 400 hp. My wife and I drove it cross-country twice, earning 9 mpgs every time.

In my wilder days, I had some crazy ideas. This step van was a 78 with a 350 and a manual tranny. The old man had passed away and he was a flea market freak. He had a bazillion picture frames in that truck, and it was paneled with Brady-rific woodgrain and orange shag carpet. I advertised the picture frames for free on CL and they were gone in a couple hours. Then I installed a stripper pole, hired a buddy's stripper girl, and cruised the Sunset strip late at night trying to get some upper-crust drunk clubbers to drop $50 to see some fat valley girl take off her clothes and try pathetically to look sexy. We made enough to cover our fuel costs, and enough that we could buy a second step van...this one a 1991 diesel. But then we realized that a bad idea times two doesn't make things better. Where did we go wrong? was it the drunk guy hanging out the driver's door? Was it the rust holes in 40% of the van? The smell of 30 years of mildew? No, wait, that was the stripper.

And you know what... the list continues. I currently have a 24' box truck for sale that I thought about putting a stripper pole in . There have been various motorcycles, junk cars, commuters, all of which I consider a project of some sort. My buddy just bought a wasted 74 Beetle that he is going to turn into a tailgate trailer. It will be hinged in the middle right behind the doors. You open it up and one half is a smoker/grille and the other is a fridge/TV.

DILYSI Dave
DILYSI Dave SuperDork
11/17/10 8:21 a.m.

curtis73
curtis73 GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
11/17/10 3:07 p.m.

me too dave.

tuna55
tuna55 Dork
11/17/10 8:21 p.m.

I love that GTO - perfect. Just what I was thinking. I have an off topic question about it though, how does the pedal actuate the master cylinders way off on the passenger side dashboard?

driver109x
driver109x Reader
11/17/10 10:43 p.m.
tuna55 wrote: I love that GTO - perfect. Just what I was thinking. I have an off topic question about it though, how does the pedal actuate the master cylinders way off on the passenger side dashboard?

Remote reservoir ... that's one bad arse goat

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