7.3 vs. 6-point-blow: motomoron's tow vehicle pt. II

So, the nice people at Liberty Mutual it would appear, are not intent on berkeleying me. The payout looks to be on the right side of $9k, and I have additional funds on hand (race season is over) to cover getting the optimal tow and utility sled correctly the first time.

Here's what I'm down to:

• Ford E350 diesel van, 12 passenger length w/ windows.

I had use of one that belongs to a friend's motorcycle race team. It's pulled a 28' hauler full of bikes and pit gear plus 6 people and all their crap from sea to shining sea, over and over. Theirs is the 7.3 motor w/ a 4" exhaust, chip, pyrometer + boost gauges, and some other instrumentation. With my race program aboard and behind it drove the same as empty.

But the 7.3 was 1997- first half of '03 only, and that's got me starting with a 10 year old vehicle at best. There's plenty of newer ones w/ the 6.0 motors though.

I'm towing a light rig, so I don't need a monster tune. I have fast cars already - it's just a utility thing.

• Does the 6.0 have actual inherent problems?

• Are any of these problems related to maintenance? I'm a good maintainer.

• Is the 6.0 "good, but you need to do X and X and X first"?

I recall Curtis knows all about these but I can't find the post.

Thanks, all.

motomoron wrote: I recall Curtis knows all about these but I can't find the post.

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/lowering-my-van/43961/page1/

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/help-me-fix-my-fuel-tank/62546/page1/

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/anyone-with-diesel-vans/34135/page2/

The early 6.0's had a real problem with the oil coolers and the turbos. I'd be surprised if both of this hadn't been fixed on ones that are still running,

My Stepdad bought a 6.0 F350 after being completely unable to find a 7.3 about 2.5 years ago. He uses it to tow heavy-ass antique tractors all over the Sierra Nevada's in California. So far, so good.

Just one point of data.

As long as there is documented proof of the head studs being done, the 6.0L is OK. The 7.3L is still better though.

motomoron wrote: - Is the 6.0 "good, but you need to do X and X and X first"?

This, I don't remember exactly what X, X & X were but it involves cylinder head removal at least. Whatever it is it was enough to make me just get the 7.3 at the time.

I'm pretty sure that in the van chassis, the PSDs are not intercooled and thus derated on power. Not sure if that makes a difference in reliability.

6.0 EGR coolers. BAD

carbon wrote: 6.0 EGR coolers. BAD

but there is a DIY fix for that right?

6.0 is bad until you do x and x and x

The emissions seemed to have introduced design flaws that need to be addressed or there will be problem. Think EGR, EGR coolers, clogged intake manifolds due to bad EGR, some legitimate turbo issues and some incorrectly diagnosed as turbo issues.

Check ford-trucks.com for more.

6.0 sells at a HUGE discount. Find one that's been bulletproofed and you're set

EGR coolers. Crap, got it wrong. I do remember that at one point it was considerd easier to lift the whole cab off the trucks to do the work because everything was so hard to get to. I'm not sure how that translates to the vans.

Carro Atrezzi wrote: 6.0 sells at a HUGE discount. Find one that's been bulletproofed and you're set

That's what tempted Stepdad. He got a ~7 years newer truck with 1/3 the miles for less money. No issues and it leaves the driveway with a full trailer more often than not.

Talk to your local machine shop. They know what motors make them money and which ones are annoyingly reliable - and they've got a nice big sample to work with.

I know my guy laughed with glee when he found out about my 3.0 Toyota...

The 6.0 is Fords big Oopsie. Check about EGR issues.

Could THIS happen to you?

The 6.0 ruined fords relationship with international. Ford got so pissed they designed their own engine with the help to Ricardo.

I have one in the machine shop right now due to some shiny happy person running it slightly (that what he said) hot (no thanks either to a caked/cracked EGR cooler), 5 connecting rods .020 over and 2 new heads I should have it by the end of next week.......

They are good engines as long as you take amazing care of them and USE them for what they are intended, but if you can find one I will suggest the 7.3 all day, keep an eye out for injectors with them though.

I hope you have the means to pull the body off the chassis for any service. Those things are packed in there on the trucks, I can only imagine the vans being far worse.

There is a reason clean trucks and vans with 7.3s are increasing in value or at least holding steady while 6.0 values continue to drop like a stone. The newest one is 10 years old and they have already proven Cummins-like reliability with the nicer ride and interior of a Ford, and you can get them in a van, something you can't do with a Cummins.

Personal anecdote time

A friend went to trade his super clean, 70k mile 6.0 in on a new Ford with the 6.7. His truck was what all the brodozers and soccer moms want, crew cab short box, nice color, Lariat FX4, never towed or worked hard, all the goodies. No dealership would even take it in on trade. The nicer ones offered him to send it to auction for him and apply the balance to the deal, but let him know he would be lucky to get 7 or 8k for it at auction. He sold it private party for around 12k and was damn glad to see it leave.
My dad just paid 16k for the cleanest 2000 F250 Powerstroke I have ever seen, Oregon truck, low miles, absolutely flawless. I consider that a pretty good deal, and that truck is 6 years older and more miles than truck in example 1 My daily driver is a 2002 F250 FX4 Lariat with almost 270k on it. Just as reliable as the Cummins, a little down on power compared to a cranked up 12 valve, but I would never trade it for a 6.0.
My coworker bought a 2005 with a 6.0. 150k miles on it. Shortly after purchase (3-4k miles) developed a miss. Needed the cab pulled to service, 7 of 8 cylinders had cracked pistons, turbo was roached. Total bill was around $6k. Runs good now but could have bought a 7.3 for less money in the long term and been driving his truck not spinning wrenches on it.

$6k seems like he got off easy compared to some 6.0 people I saw when I was at ford. Berk that motor. We had a 7.3 that we used to plow, and tow racecars, went like 280,000 before we sold it. good truck, towed great. Had to put an oil pan, some brake lines, and a tank in it from rust but otherwise good.

you only need to pull the cab off to do the head studs - or heads.

All this makes me love my 7.4 gas that much more..

Run away from the 6.0. Even the 6.4 had issues. Only until the 6.7 were the the true issues fixed. There aren't enough head bolts on the 6.0 or 6.4. The egr cooler & other issues are minor in my mind compared to the huge issue of not enough bolts- no way to fix that but drive easy but who buys a diesel to drive easy & not tow anything up hill in the heat. 7.3, 6.7 only. I wish Toyota would bring their diesel here.

I have a 6.0 in my 2005 F250 crew cab long bed. We use it to haul the 28 foot horse trailer and my rx7 on an open trailer.

No issues to report. It has been perfect.

+1 what others have said. I'd be especially weary of a van with the 6.0 since it's excruciatingly difficult do to any serious work on a big engine that is installed in the vans. I have a '97 E-SuperDuty with the 7.3 and while a great truck, it does have almost 300k miles on it and does need some love from time to time. I shudder at the thought of ever having to do any work on the engine. Short of changing the serp belt, just about nothing is a quick and easy job. I loath the day I ever have to remove the rocker covers.

If you do go with the 7.3, I recommend installing an electric fuel pump and fuel filter all mounted on the frame rail. You'll thank yourself. Google 7.3 PSD E-fuel conversion.

What about the Chevy's instead of Ford?