850 or 960....?

I'm considering a 'wagon, preferably small to medium sized, and came across these 2 Volvo wagons. BOTH are '97 models, Both have automatic trannys, BOTH have approx. 135K on the odo, and the prices for both are "just under 3K".

I lean towards the 850, as it's an evil-looking black with tan interior. The 960 is double gold colored (interior and exterior). What would be the pros and cons of each? So far, the biggest "con" for the 960 is also it's biggest "pro"...the big 6 which I don't believe (am I wrong?) is not being used by Volvo anymore. The biggest pro for the 850 is that it is so similar to current production Volvos.

As far as FWD vs RWD....? I don't live where there is a lot of snowfall to deal with. (Memphis, Tn.)

A big factor in my decision, but not the only one is annual running costs. I would assume the EWD car would be MORE labor intensive and parts might be more expensive. BTW, the 850 is a GLT, but I haven't seen it in person yet, so I don't know if it is a turbo or not.

I just went over and checked IPD's website. For some reason, they don't stock parts for 960s that are newer than '94. NOTHING. Which is kind of odd, aren't the newer cars NEARLY enough the same to use the older parts?

I have '95 Volvo 850 wagon w/ a 5 speed manual. I purchased it 3 years ago at 106k and it now has 145k. I can not give much for comparison but here are some of my learnings for the 850.

Frequent repairs:
When I reviewed this I found a few simple repairs for mine.
http://volvospeed.com/vs_forum/index.php/topic/8739-volvospeed-useful-threads-for-repairs/

http://volvospeed.com/maintenance.shtml

I have really liked mine for the past 3 years. It has been easy to work on for the few things it has needed. Interestingly, just about everything requires torx bits. Not a big deal, I just had to purchase a set of 3/8" torx sockets and a screw driver handle with interchangeable torx bits.

For parts i typically order from http://www.fcpgroton.com/index-exec/#850

I personally have black (dark charcoal) leather. I think it looks and wears much better than the tan leather. Cloth is available but somewhat hard to find.
My car is not a turbo model and should in no way be considered fast but it is plenty for daily driving.

Neither. 940t FTW

850s have known problems with leaking a/c evaporators, 960s don't. The 850 will get maybe 2 mpg more than the 960. 960 is a little bigger inside and out.

Both of those motors are in the modular "whiteblock" family that volvo developed with porsche's help, and are well made strokers that live along time with care. The 6 is not being used anymore, but the 5 banger is all over the place including in the hot focus in Europe. I drove a 97 960 2.9L slushbox sedan across the US from cali to Boston and it was a very comfy long legged mile eater. I own a 95 850 wagon that I bought in conn. and drove back to cali and it is a very comfy long legged mile eater. They share the same, bore spacing, valve geometry and layout, transmission, electronic management, interior bits, and all sorts of stuff in (obviously) very different layouts. They are long lived reliable cars that are very maintainable and pretty darned easy to work on. The further up the trim level, the more fussy stuff there is to break. They do and will require a fair bit of maintenance. Hondas they are not.

I would choose the FWD 850/70 "p1" cars over the 960 because of the zillions of them just flooding into junkyards, and the high pressure turbo charged 2.3l versions will make 250hp and right around 270 ftlbs (crank) with the addition of a manual boost controller. They will do that for a very long time on a properly maintained car if one stays under 14 psi. There is quite a bit more modding going on with them too.. The high pressure turbo 2.3l FWD p1 cars make good cheap dragsters and have been discovered by youngins looking for something faster than a civic for similar money.

The FWD car will never really handle very well. I have koni sports and IPD sways installed and it is a nose heavy pig that gets unsettled very easily and cannot begin to put down the 270 hp/300 ftlbs I am making with a 17psi remap/exhaust/intake. The steering wheel needs to be strait before you can put your foot down, and even then the torque steer can be significant. The steering is vague and the brakes are pretty good but are impossible to modulate. My gets out of its own way pretty well for a 15 year old car and the 10 hour drive between portland and san franciso is quite bearable. The seats really are superb- them and the 17 psi are the high points.

The RWD car will handle better, but it has the same vague inputs and there is not much you can do with the motor to juice it up with bolt on's. It is adequate as is however. I do not know if IPD and koni (or whoever) make struts/sway bars for them. Some 960 had a smaller 2.5l 6 I think....

The 97 GLT is a light pressure turbo, 2.4l- with a mitsu 13g. Higher compression/lower boost. It will be making about what the big 6 is making stock, a bit less HP, a bit more tq perhaps.

Swedish ricer site: http://volvospeed.com/

Parts: http://www.fcpgroton.com/index-exec/sub_top_menu_item/by_make-by_model-by_year/by_make/78

whiteblock: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_Modular_engine

Good Luck!

I have had the jones for an 850 Turbo wagon with 5 speed. I was looking at an 850 turbo in the junk yard the other day and it is a big car by today's standards.

I am thinking black with the darkest tint I can legally get. OR silver with the silver tint I have been seeing lately.

Then lower it, Some wider sneakers. It it was a black car I would get steel rims and paint them black with red pin stripes or I was thinking a set for the Fuchs from a 944 again all black or a set of CCW"s in black. If it is the silver car obviously mags of some type. Again the CCW comes to mind but get a silver finish.

I was watching Ebay the other day and saw a 850 turbo 5 speed car sell for around $1500. I was mechanically all there but had more than its share of dings and dents. I ALMOST pulled the trigger as it was only 4 towns over but I am holding off for the wagon.

By the way how is the aftermarket for these cars? I assume you can make them handel but at what cost? Does the aftermarket have a Porsche price structure or are we talking Ford budget here?

nedc wrote: 850s have known problems with leaking a/c evaporators, 960s don't. The 850 will get maybe 2 mpg more than the 960. 960 is a little bigger inside and out.

\ Here is a link to a well written and well documented repair of an 850's AC evap. That article states that is about a $1,900 job which is about $1,500 in labor and only $300 in parts.
http://www.woodjoiner.com/volvo/VolvoEvapReplace.pdf

I personally keep this article bookmarked because my 850's AC sytem leaks. I have to hit it with a134r once in the spring and again at the end of summer. For me that is cheaper than ripping out the whole dash.

jrw1621 wrote: I have really liked mine for the past 3 years. It has been easy to work on for the few things it has needed. Interestingly, just about everything requires torx bits. Not a big deal, I just had to purchase a set of 3/8" torx sockets and a screw driver handle with interchangeable torx bits.

I wonder if that is a swedish thing.. my saab is the same way

I was this close || to trading my 2 non-running RX7s for a 92 940 turbo sedan this weekend...then somebody else showed up with cash.

I really can't give a comparison but owning a '97 850 GLT wagon for 12 years makes me a bit biased. I think they look better and it runs on any octane you give it. It really likes premium and you're rewarded with good acceleration. However, I've been running regular in it for years with nary a problem, just performance lacking. Doesn't knock at all.

The fact that the 850s were active in the British Touring car series in the mid 90s adds to the cool factor.

integraguy wrote: I just went over and checked IPD's website. For some reason, they don't stock parts for 960s that are newer than '94. NOTHING. Which is kind of odd, aren't the newer cars NEARLY enough the same to use the older parts?

I'm pretty sure it was called the S90/V90 at some point.

Common misconception - the 850 GLT trim level is not a turbo car.

The evap core job is an issue to take seriously. I swallowed hard and paid a shop to do mine - roughly $1500.

All of the other common problems are easy and cheap fixes, and none will leave you stranded.

These cars (the 850s) are so incredibly cheap for what you get - utility, reliability, safety and comfortable highway cruising at 27 mpg. They are not performance cars, however. The turbo might help with acceleration, but they handle like Aunt Mable's Buick (okay, maybe not quite that bad, but you get the idea).

dean1484 wrote: I was looking at an 850 turbo in the junk yard the other day and it is a big car by today's standards.

Recently my 850 wagon was parked between a new Sentra and a HHR and my "big Volvo box" was shorter in height than both the other two. In made my wagon almost look like a low rider.

JD is right, 940 is what you want. Bigger cargo area, better turning radius, modifications galore through turbobricks and ipd and it's going to be way more reliable than those two.

I have located 2 different 940s in this area, but really (thought) I wanted the wagon. I'm going to go look at the 850 and the 940s tomorrow and as someone has already pointed out, not al GLTs are turbos.

I did look at the specs for both these cars, they are amazingly close, like no more than an inch difference in any dimension.

IF, I had to choose right now, that A/C issue on the 850 would give give me pause, but the snarky black paint job is difficult to ignore. Yet, the refrigerator white 940s make for better sleepers, I suppose.

integraguy wrote: I have located 2 different 940s in this area, but really (thought) I wanted the wagon. I'm going to go look at the 850 and the 940s tomorrow and as someone has already pointed out, not al GLTs are turbos. I did look at the specs for both these cars, they are amazingly close, like no more than an inch difference in any dimension. IF, I had to choose right now, that A/C issue on the 850 would give give me pause, but the snarky black paint job is difficult to ignore. Yet, the refrigerator white 940s make for better sleepers, I suppose.

If the heatechanger, or evporator or whatever they call it has been changed in a 850 (many have), the oem replacement is a revised part that takes care of the problem. Mine was changed before I bought my car and has given no problems. Lots of good insights here and I want to add: the HPT 2.3 in the 850s and 70s with a 17 psi remap/exhuast is a seriously capable sleeper of a highway car. I don't race on the freeway, and I have had a few folks in cars that cost 10x think I was in their way and they found out otherwise. boatloads of torque- small block v8 torque. I would suggest driving one before deciding.

850 T5 wagons were used by UK traffic police for a long time as a motorway/highway patrol car. They're very quick, eat front tyres for breakfast (expected lifespan for a set of front tyres is around 15k over here) and carry a lot of stuff in the back at the same time.

God help you if you ever have to replace the heater core on the 960.

The 850 GLT turbo is easily boosted.

Personally, I find the 850 series far easier to work on than the 700/900 series.

So get a 940 wagon?