A tale of 2 dealerships: AKA I think I bought a car?

Part-1

We’ve been discussing replacing our Town & Country - that SWMBO never has liked - with something smaller, new, hatchback, and within our $18k budget.

The Fit Sport was definitely on the top of out list, since we’ve had great experience with both the 1st & 2nd gen Fits in the family, though we had no exposure to the current 3rd gen. The Yaris hatch was also on the list because it was a bit cheaper than the Fit, though we had zero experience with them. We’d already ruled out other vehicles due to price, lack of availability in our area, or the simple fact that she didn’t like what she saw on the internet. 

So today was the day to go test drive them both, then decide if we were interested in either of them. 

Stay tuned for part-2 tomorrow morning. 

Hope you got the Fit. Great cars. 3rd gen has teething problems at mexico plant - but all sorted now 

Any reason not to try to find a low-mile GE? I don't love the looks of the 3rd gen, personally. Interested to hear your thoughts on the Yaris. I had a rental once and hated it, though I think it was the previous generation.

Part-2

We hit the Toyota dealership first, since they’re closer to home. They’re a typical modern dealership - adjacent to the interstate & right off the exit. They easily had over 200 vehicles on the lot, including a single Yaris, which happened to be a white hatchback. 

It was the most atypical dealership experience I’ve ever had. The salesman was friendly & chatty, but without any of the typical sales ploys. He explained that in addition to the factory warranty, they offer free maintenance for the first 3-years/whatever miles - which basically means 2 oil changes & a tire rotation per year. That’s nice, but likely not worth the inconvenience of having to drive 20-minutes each way. They also include an additional powertrain warranty for the life of the vehicle to the original owner. 

The car was nice, the only real complaints was with the seat adjusted car enough forward for my wife, the 2 center console cup holders were behind here elbow. She didn’t really like the flow of the car’s UI, though it seemed fine to me. Lastly, she thought it felt low on power. I didn’t drive either car, but from the passenger’s seat it felt fine to me. 

We had him run the numbers when we returned from the drive. Their trade offer was $200 more than the payoff on our van, and the total out-the-door price was $17,828. As we were leaving I asked how long that offer was good for, and he replied “as long as we have this car”. Overall it was truly the least painful dealership experience I’ve ever had. 

Stay tuned for part-3.

In reply to poopshovel again :

Yes: she wanted a new car. One of her main reasons was a newer UI. She wanted hands-free calling, a backup camera, touch-screen etc  

Though used Fits are pretty difficult to find down here most of the time anyway, and 2nd gen cars seem to list around $6-$7 regardless of mileage.  

Part-3

We drove another 15-minutes to the Honda dealer. We’d had our 2nd gen here for the Takata recall in 2016, but didn’t have any experience with their sales staff. 

They had 7 Fits in stock: 4 LX(the lowest model), and 3 EX(the highest model), but no Sports. I introduced myself to the salesman & told him we wanted to test drive a Fit. Almost immediately he started in with the “what would it take for you to drive home in one today” line. It only got worse from there...

On the test drive it was apparent that he had zero knowledge or training on Fits, as I knew more about them than he did - seriously, he had no idea about the Magic Seats & I had to demonstrate them for him. He also gave us the “we only have $400 markup in these cars so we can’t really deal on price” line too. 

Overall the Fit felt very much like our 2nd gen. The interior and controls were very similar, and the only negative aspect was there’s no longer a 2nd upper glovebox on the dash. The UI was intuitive, and everything felt fine from the passenger seat. My wife thought it had more power than the Yaris(I believe it does, but I didn’t check HP numbers for either car).

Then came the fun...

He took my key for the van so they could give us a trade-in value. It ended up being $300 less than our payoff & $500 less than Toyota had quoted us.

They found a silver Fit Sport about an hour away, and the total price was around $19,500. I thanked him & stood up to leave, as he started scrambling to close the deal. Again he gave the “what would it take...” line & I reiterated the $18k I’d stated before. 

By this time my wife’s should pain was really aggravating her. She saw our van outside & still had her key, so she just walked out & got in the van. I asked for my key back & the salesman started scrambling.

The sales manager walked out & had scratched out the original $19,500 price and written $18,500 on the paper. He asked if we’d buy it on the spot for that price. I explained that my priority was getting her home, but that we’d discuss it. He scratched out the $18,500 and wrote $18,000. Funny how quickly that price changed, eh?

Eventually they relinquished my key, and I told them I’d call with a decision by the time we got home. 

Ultimately my wife didn’t like the Yaris, while the Fit felt like being back home, and despite all the stereotypical sleazy tactics the Honda dealer threw at us, ultimately they were able to hit our target price. I called them back & told them we’d take it, but by that time it was too late for them to get the car from the other dealership. However, they wanted a commitment before they went to get the car Monday - and honestly I wasnted to make sure the price didn’t change after the car arrived - so I went back to the dealer last night & signed the papers. 

We ended up financing it through our local credit union, where we bank. I’d already done the pre-approval online Friday, but it was too late to get a response that day. So tomorrow I need to take the paperwork to a loan rep & have them cut a check for the car. Since my wife needs our van to get to work, the salesman is supposed to drive the Fit to us tomorrow around 4:30, pick up the check, and drive our van back. 

I still have suspicions they may try to pull some more tricks before that happens, but we’ll see...

In reply to Pete Gossett :

It will be interesting if they find some reason to tack on other BS to the price.  

Look for "Title Fee" and "Inventory Tax."  Yeah, part of them doing business.  Those showed up on my LR2 purchase, plus other stuff.  $150 for title fee, $25 for the tax the dealer has to pay to the state for carrying their inventory.  Seems like that is their cost of doing business.  I didn't see a fee for "dealer's electricity and water bill."  Anyway, "the title fee can't be waved."  "OK, then back out the $150 from the sales price, add the $150 title fee back on and I'll throw you the inventory tax and we'll call it good."  "OK."

No accent or rio5? 

In reply to bobzilla :

The Accent EX(? Whatever the wagon is), had a significant price increase from 2019 to 2020, putting it out of our budget. There were no leftover 2019s around, and only 3 or 4 2020s within 100-miles. 

The Rio 5 was a little to spartan, and she straight-up wasn’t interested in it. 

"Yeah
One, two, dealers kneel before you
That's what I said, now
Dealers, Dealers who adore you
Just go ahead, now
One has diamonds in their pockets
That's some bread, now
This one, said they want to buy you rockets
Ain't in their head, now..."

Dr. Hess said:

Look for "Title Fee" and "Inventory Tax."  Yeah, part of them doing business.  Those showed up on my LR2 purchase, plus other stuff.  $150 for title fee, $25 for the tax the dealer has to pay to the state for carrying their inventory.  Seems like that is their cost of doing business.  I didn't see a fee for "dealer's electricity and water bill."  Anyway, "the title fee can't be waved."  "OK, then back out the $150 from the sales price, add the $150 title fee back on and I'll throw you the inventory tax and we'll call it good."  "OK."

 

This!  We agreed on a price for our Golf, then they tried adding the "administration fee" and the "document fee."  I told them, if I was paying for those fees, then the cost of the fee was coming off the price of the car.  We had agreed on an out the door price, not a price + fees.  They tried to bluster, sales manager even came in and said something like, "you're really going to beat us up over, $250?" or whatever the fees were.  They quickly found out I wasn't bluffing.  The price of the car, miraculously got cheap enough to account for the fees.

I hate car dealers, very few exceptions.  I know there are a few good ones, but there are enough bad ones, for me to stand firm in my blanket hatred for all of them.  I guess I'm a car dealer bigot, but I'm okay with it.

bigdaddylee82 said:

Dr. Hess said:

Look for "Title Fee" and "Inventory Tax."  Yeah, part of them doing business.  Those showed up on my LR2 purchase, plus other stuff.  $150 for title fee, $25 for the tax the dealer has to pay to the state for carrying their inventory.  Seems like that is their cost of doing business.  I didn't see a fee for "dealer's electricity and water bill."  Anyway, "the title fee can't be waved."  "OK, then back out the $150 from the sales price, add the $150 title fee back on and I'll throw you the inventory tax and we'll call it good."  "OK."

 

This!  We agreed on a price for our Golf, then they tried adding the "administration fee" and the "document fee."  I told them, if I was paying for those fees, then the cost of the fee was coming off the price of the car.  We had agreed on an out the door price, not a price + fees.  They tried to bluster, sales manager even came in and said something like, "you're really going to beat us up over, $250?" or whatever the fees were.  They quickly found out I wasn't bluffing.  The price of the car, miraculously got cheap enough to account for the fees.

I hate car dealers, very few exceptions.  I know there are a few good ones, but there are enough bad ones, for me to stand firm in my blanket hatred for all of them.  I guess I'm a car dealer bigot, but I'm okay with it.

I call these "gratuitous profit fees."

_ said:

"Yeah
One, two, dealers kneel before you
That's what I said, now
Dealers, Dealers who adore you
Just go ahead, now
One has diamonds in their pockets
That's some bread, now
This one, said they want to buy you rockets
Ain't in their head, now..."

Banned for spin doctors reference

Pman thanks for the connection..........off to Ytube for the sound......sorry Pete for the  HJack

A Honda dealership being shady about a Fit? I feel like I've heard this story before. 

Mndsm said:

A Honda dealership being shady about a Fit? I feel like I've heard this story before. 

 

At least we know how it’ll end if it gets to that point...

I don't know about where some of you guys live, but in Illinois there is a title fee on EVERY vehicle when it's first registered in Illinois.  It happens to be $150.  It is not a dealer looking for extra profit, that's the DOC fee.  In Illinois the government forces the following charges on a vehicle purchase:
Title fee
License plate Fee
Taxes
ERT fee if titled anywhere but a secretary of state's office
 

Gawd, I hate that keep your key trick until you make a deal. I threatened to call the police once when they refused to give me my keys back until I signed the deal. They didn't believe me so I went to the service desk in the show room and asked to use the phone. They coughed up my keys then.

In reply to Brian :

Yeah, well, Brian those fees are paid by you to the state.  Every state has that.  We are not talking about state fees, but "document fee" type things that are pure 100% profit that the dealer tacks on to the price of the car.  If they manage the title work, then those fees are added as well as the "document fee."

I got the LR2 from an extremely high end dealer in Dallas.  Their web home page for used cars had a late model Bentley.  They still tried to stick me with the "document fee."  Although, in their defense, they did spend $150 on FedEx'ing me documents.  I mean, next day Saturday delivery before noon FedEx, and not just once. 

The real common denominator of peoples' bad experiences with dealers is that almost everyone you're allowed to talk to is on commission. It makes people E36 M3ty. 

If a dealer somehow hides their fee till the last second or doesn't include it in a OTD or "drive out" price.. I understand people being miffed.

But being angry about a dealer charging a fairly reasonable $150 fully legal Document fee(which, fun fact, in the state of TX can legally be up to $375) for doing all the paperwork with the state on your behalf?
now we're just being pedantic.

Vigo said:

The real common denominator of peoples' bad experiences with dealers is that almost everyone you're allowed to talk to is on commission. It makes people E36 M3ty. 

No, E36 M3ty people are still just E36 M3ty people.
There's a way to do business on commission and be straightforward with people. There are just people in the business who throw morals out the window.

It's not a crime to ask for someone's business and work to earn their business. There's an art to doing it respectfully most salespeople don't take the time to learn by choice or either by the nature of the business being a total meat grinder of constantly rotating people.

In reply to Pete Gossett :

Here is hoping all goes smoothly on the rest of your transaction Pete

spacecadet said:

If a dealer somehow hides their fee till the last second or doesn't include it in a OTD or "drive out" price.. I understand people being miffed.

But being angry about a dealer charging a fairly reasonable $150 fully legal Document fee(which, fun fact, in the state of TX can legally be up to $375) for doing all the paperwork with the state on your behalf?
now we're just being pedantic.

Lots of things are "fully legal."  I won't list some, to avoid opening up a political debate.  In my case, it was an out of state purchase so all they had to do was give me a title I could bring to the State of Arkansas to get my title and registration. They did no paperwork with Arkansas on my behalf.  They wound up dropping the price $150, adding the "inventory tax" and $150 "document fee" and shipping me the car.