mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
1/22/09 7:54 a.m.

doing the planning stages of building up a 'replica' volumex system for my fiat.

intending on using an M62 supercharger to a custom intake manifold with integrated air to water intercooling.

Only intending on running 8psi (or there abouts) and was wondering if anybody had any thoughts on what to use for the cooler part that is built into the intake manifold. With such low pressures, I was thinking either an efficent oil cooler or even a heater core could be used.

Thoughts?

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess SuperDork
1/22/09 8:20 a.m.

Well, to do a proper sizing, you'd need to do all the math on it, as in PV=nRT, heat dumping capability of your heat exchangers, expected air flows and requirements, etc. It would get pretty complicated but be an interesting project.

Or, you can stick the biggest radiator you can find that will fit in the space available, put the highest flow fans on it you can and that would do you just as good.

mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
1/22/09 9:01 a.m.

well, that last part is all part of Grassroots, right?

I am more worried about a heater core or oilcooler surviving in the intake manifold. I have seen the laminova cores, but they seem really pricey

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess SuperDork
1/22/09 10:18 a.m.

The smart thing to do would be to just buy a Garrett chargecooler on eBay and plumb it inline. It is very similar to what was used on the Esprit Turbo SE, near as I can tell. Costs would probably be the same once you added up everything you'd have to do to make your own. The one on the Esprit was cast into a longer section. The ones directly from Garrett have hose connections on the end. I think they came on some of those blown Ford trucks (lightening?). There was a model that had the separate charge cooler and I think there was a model where the charge cooler was built into the manifold. I kept an eye out for the external one for a while, but never bought one. People upgrade to a bigger unit and sell the original one. It would be a major job to get it to work on my Esprit: New computer with S4s code, new heat exchanger, extra injectors, plumbing, etc. I have enough projects as it is.

mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
1/22/09 10:24 a.m.

thanks! this is why I ask such odd questions here.. we have such a wide range of automotive interests, somebody always has the answer

matt_fulghum
matt_fulghum New Reader
1/22/09 10:53 a.m.

I imagine that a heater core or oil cooler would be fine in an intercooler, as long as it's got vibration mounts inside the casing. Other than that, the pressures and temperatures involved are nowhere near the limits of the materials.

The major problem would be pressure drop over the cooler, but you'd get that with any intercooling setup.

I'm not entirely convinced that it's really beneficial in any way though, outside of the cool factor. You're going to have quite a bit more complexity under the hood, but without that much better heat transfer out of the intake airflow, especially with a relatively low boost level.

mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
1/22/09 12:16 p.m.

well, there is always the chance of 10psi.. once you get to a certain level with an eaton.. all you get is heat

Xceler8x
Xceler8x HalfDork
1/22/09 12:30 p.m.

Is there a reason not to use a simpler air to air IC?

Hal
Hal HalfDork
1/22/09 7:28 p.m.
Xceler8x wrote: Is there a reason not to use a simpler air to air IC?

He is using an Eaton M62 (similar to Rootes like you see on Drag cars). They are mounted directly on the intake manifold. The charge cooler needs to be in the intake manifold or more commonly in an adaptor plate between the supercharger and the maniflod.

In reply to mad_machine:

Even though I have such a setup on my car I have never seen the internals of the charge cooler. You might go to the FocalJet FI forum and ask if someone has a picture of the charge cooler from one of the Powerworks setups. It is contained in an adaptor placed between the charger and the intake manifold.

IIRC, a number of years ago someone on there was building one to use with a the Jackson Racing (non-intercooled) super charger on a Focus. He used a 1" thick aluminum plate milled out to fit and then drilled to insert metal tubing in the air stream and for connecting passages.

Edit: On further thought you might be able to get away with using a well made, appropiately sized oil cooler if you remove the fins (corrigated material) leving only the tubes. That might work without blocking the air flow.

Xceler8x
Xceler8x HalfDork
1/22/09 8:45 p.m.
Hal wrote: He is using an Eaton M62 (similar to Rootes like you see on Drag cars). They are mounted directly on the intake manifold. The charge cooler needs to be in the intake manifold or more commonly in an adaptor plate between the supercharger and the maniflod.

Ah, got it. So there isn't any piping between the supercharger and the intake ports. No room for an air to air IC.

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess SuperDork
1/22/09 9:04 p.m.

If there's no piping, then the Garrett like I mentioned won't work either. I thought it was more like those used on a Toyota in the MR2.

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