I find the racing culture from series to series fascinating. I've raced dirt track cars, a Vintage Formula Ford, a Vintage Camaro and a SpecMiata and the culture and what's expected and accepted on track makes for four very different experiences. I generally prefer motorsports with less contact but I do have to say that bump drafting in the Miata is fun.
Wow, the orange car driver should be black flagged from ever getting behind the wheel of anything ever again on track or on the street. What a dick
What blows my mind - although, maybe it shouldn't - is that in my five minutes of internet sleuthing, it appears that the driver of the #46 has actually been racing Spec Miata since maybe 2019? I see his name in results going back at least that far. One would think that by this time he would have either figured his stuff out or had someone give him a talkin' to.
He needs a "Pastor Maldonado is my Hero" shirt....
wae said:What blows my mind - although, maybe it shouldn't - is that in my five minutes of internet sleuthing, it appears that the driver of the #46 has actually been racing Spec Miata since maybe 2019? I see his name in results going back at least that far. One would think that by this time he would have either figured his stuff out or had someone give him a talkin' to.
He needs a "Pastor Maldonado is my Hero" shirt....
No that's exactly what I expected. Novices are generally cautious, it's the people that have been at it for a few years and have the confidence but not the skill that are the most dangerous.
My sole experience with a Spec Miata car was at Pineview Run, the local private race track, and it was unpleasant. I was there with my Yaris to do some tire testing/data gathering for a big wheel at the track, and there was a new club member out for his first time on a track with his stock WRX. A race team showed up with their Spec Miata and wanted to scrub in tires. They were told that the cars on track were not going particularly quick (1:20 second laps) and neither driver was cleared for passing, so no passing allowed. Spec Miata guys said "No problem, we won't be going fast, we're just scrubbing in tires." Within a lap or two, the Spec Miata is breathing down my neck, so on one of the few straights I got over to the side and let off the gas and let him by. Within another lap he got all over the poor dude in the WRX and dive-bombed him into a corner. The track people threw a black flag on him, he came in, drove down the pits at like 30mph, then got out of the car and started screaming at the track people about "why did I get black-flagged and not the two guys who wouldn't let me pass." It was a huge clusterberkeley, and the track official wanted to ban the guy with the Spec Miata from the track.
Thing is, I loved my miata, love the idea of spec miata, but would never run it because I don't have the disposable income to add bodywork to entry fees and don't like crash to pass mentality.
Don't know what it would take to reverse the reputation of spec miata, but it's been earned over many years.
Is it just that larger fields leads to this behavior?
It's up to the stewards, really. Penalize the bad behavior and ban the worst offenders. I suspect it's one of those cases where 5% of the drivers cause 90% of the problems, and at least one of them has an orange car :)
Keith Tanner said:
...and at least one of them has an orange car :)
More than one. The one in the story I was recounting was a dark blue and highlighter orange NB.
Whoever built that orange car builds a stout car! I'm surprised it survived all that contact and kept running!
If the officials tolerate that sort of behavior, there will be more behavior of that sort. If the officials start revoking licenses, behavior will improve remarkably fast. I had this discussion with the NASA Pro Spec Miata director and the SCCA Pro Spec Miata Steward a long time ago. They tolerated that sort of "intolerable" behavior and look what happened to those Pro series...
The same driver had another Sm with the same number that looks to have been totalled in 2018. (Its blue)
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Agreed 100% on the Stewards; it's why I mentioned Marge Links, she didn't put up with this nonsense.
I get why some guys were pissed off but at what point do you as a group of drivers look each other in the eye and realize you've put up with too many bad apples for too long?
I'm an extremely aggressive driver and I'd never attempt so of the high risk maneuvers I see some SM drivers pull.
That is like watching iRacing in real life. I swear in the iRacing MX-5 cup only 50% of the cars are equiped with brakes. I think I have been cleanly passed without a punt about 5 times in 20 or more races.
I think the officials have become afraid to pull licenses do to an overall decline in membership. The opposite effect is happening with the comments posted above.
Chief stewart apparently updated with this earlier
Also according to several posts, this is the second car for #46, his first one ended up like this, he runs north east, has a reputation, and came down to try Sebring
"I try to work the SM group as much as I can because of the quality of racing" could be interpreted two ways.
"...I am known not to black flag sessions" We may have found the fundamental problem.
Keith Tanner said:"I try to work the SM group as much as I can because of the quality of racing" could be interpreted two ways.
"...I am known not to black flag sessions" We may have found the fundamental problem.
I think the fundamental problem is these guys have to make a snap decision, and when multiple cars are blatantly racing past yellow flags through four stations your only option is to Black flag all.
tooms351 said:Keith Tanner said:"I try to work the SM group as much as I can because of the quality of racing" could be interpreted two ways.
"...I am known not to black flag sessions" We may have found the fundamental problem.
I think the fundamental problem is these guys have to make a snap decision, and when multiple cars are blatantly racing past yellow flags through four stations your only option is to Black flag all.
Do that a couple of times and people will start to figure it out.
I used to run a university marching band. Before I took over, the band would announce what time you had to be on the bus to leave for a game - but it ws padded by 30 minutes to make sure everyone showed up on time. Everyone knew that, so they'd show up 30 minutes late. Then it was padded by 45. Then it was an hour. The bus would always wait for stragglers.
When I took over, I announced what time the bus was going to leave, and it left at that time. I only had to leave band members behind once before they figured it out and we never had to wait again. There have to be consequences to ignoring the rules. Make it clear that there are going to be consequences and people will start to pay attention to them.
That video looks like #46 took the wrong exit and ended up at Sebring, while thinking they were taking part in the crashfest that was the Daytona 500.
That kind of footage is pretty much why - if I ever try to regain my race license[1] - I'll stick to open wheelers.
[1] Lost for lack of participation, not for driving like a NASCAR refugee.
BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) said:
That kind of footage is pretty much why - if I ever try to regain my race license[1] - I'll stick to open wheelers.
[1] Lost for lack of participation, not for driving like a NASCAR refugee.
Good point, this is why I was more interested in open wheeler classes, even if they cars may not be as safe in crash modes, crashes seem to occur far less frequently in those fields. The mentality seems so different in observation.
Now, I just wish there were more track day like outlets for them...
Spec miata is a great concept. Cheap cars with limited mods to keep prices down. Now, because the cars are cheap some drivers with the means abuse the field to gain an advantage by using the "chrome horn" and relying on others being crash adverse (to save their wallets!) to gain an edge over the competition.
Apexcarver said:Spec miata is a great concept. Cheap cars with limited mods to keep prices down. Now, because the cars are cheap some drivers with the means abuse the field to gain an advantage by using the "chrome horn" and relying on others being crash adverse (to save their wallets!) to gain an edge over the competition.
Cheap is relative. I seem to recall seeing similar behavior at a 911 spec series support race for the USGP :)
Keith Tanner said:Apexcarver said:Spec miata is a great concept. Cheap cars with limited mods to keep prices down. Now, because the cars are cheap some drivers with the means abuse the field to gain an advantage by using the "chrome horn" and relying on others being crash adverse (to save their wallets!) to gain an edge over the competition.Cheap is relative. I seem to recall seeing similar behavior at a 911 spec series support race for the USGP :)
Don't forget the Ferrari Challenge. There's usually about a 68% chance of a fecal festival when those guys take the track....
I would really like to jump into Spec Miata, but it has had the nickname Spec Piñata for a good reason.
They need to implement Lemons style rules.
Send shiny happy people to the paddock to be duct taped to the hood of their cars and forced to yell "we can't drive" into a megaphone for the rest of the session.
Embarrassing and painful consequences are powerful motivation.
I have a friend with a Porsche 924 that was running an enduro at the Glen combined with Spec Pinatas. He qualified well in the back, and his co-driver commented that he had run much better in practice. He said "I've run with this group before, trust me by Lap 2, we'll be top ten if I don't get a flat from running over debris." He called it.
In reply to Apexcarver :
My first time flagging races was turn 1 at summit. I don't know if that was a brilliant or terrible decision by the persons issuing assignments.
Here's what I don't understand about the driver of the 46. One of the best and most enjoyable parts of club racing is in the paddock after the race is over and in the evening after is talking to your counterparts about the battles that you had on track that day. Rehashing them and the camaraderie and respect that's formed.
When you engage in the asshattery that he took upon himself, you miss out on that. It is not part of your experience and it's one of the best parts about wheel-to-wheel racing. I would feel sorry for the guy if he weren't a danger to the health and safety of those who he shares the track with, both racers, volunteers and safety personnel. People like that are a threat to the sport. From a legality standpoint from an insurance standpoint and from the standpoint of people seeing that footage and thinking to themselves this is why I don't want to race wheel to wheel.
It is toxic behavior and it cannot be stood for or defended.
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