singledownloop
singledownloop Reader
12/26/16 10:28 p.m.

I want to add spacers on my lower ball joints.Stock my ball joints are bolted through the bottom of the lca.Would there be any negative consequences if I bolt the ball joint on top of lca.I don't want to risk my life.

bentwrench
bentwrench Dork
12/26/16 10:40 p.m.

In a spring over a arm the ball joint is inserted from the bottom so it is trapped in the arm.

If you move it to the top of the arm the weight of the car will be held by the bolts.

I believe there are long stem ball joints made for this purpose

singledownloop
singledownloop Reader
12/26/16 10:48 p.m.

Thanks bentwrench I wasn't sure so I thought I better ask for help.I have found off the shelf ball joints that are the height and taper I need.They are uppers for a chevy pickup.Is there any problem running upper ball joints as lowers?

bentwrench
bentwrench Dork
12/26/16 11:18 p.m.

I wont tell you, you can use an upper in the lower position.

Look in the Speedway catalog you can assemble ball joints.

You might need to weld a sleeve into your arm to accommodate a different joint.

Crackers
Crackers Reader
12/27/16 8:59 a.m.

What is your goal in changing mounting location and what kind of car are you working on?

Moving the joint like you describe is unlikely to change suspension geometry to any discernable degree, the distance between the ball joint sockets is what has to change by either changing the spindle or ball joint height.

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 PowerDork
12/27/16 9:01 a.m.

Im actually contemplating using an upper as a lower as well on an amc, because thats really my only option other than stock.

So, subbed for the education.

singledownloop
singledownloop Reader
12/27/16 10:45 a.m.

Dusterbd13 I also have an amc spirit.What ball joint are you considering using?Crackers my goal is to lower my car as well as improve suspension geometry.My plan is to use a tall ball joint in the lca.The purpose of using a spacer was to lower the car an additional 3/4" or so.

Crackers
Crackers Reader
12/27/16 7:20 p.m.

LOL, my project car is also an AMC.

Considering the front end is sprung from the top I don't think mounting the lower ball joint on top of the control arm will do anything.

However, I don't think the upper control arm would be terribly difficult to relocate on the chassis to modify geometry.

singledownloop
singledownloop Reader
12/27/16 7:32 p.m.

That's pretty funny Crackers,what model amc is your project?I know a longer ball joint will improve my camber.I'm more interested in lowering my car "1+ with taller ball joints.I would think any bolt in lower ball join with a 10 degree taper that is 1"+ longer then stock amc bottom joint would do the trick.It would be a simple matter to weld up the amc ball joint bolt holes in the lca and re-drill them to match the longer ball joints bolt pattern.It's funny 3 people on this post are building amc's.

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 PowerDork
12/27/16 7:46 p.m.

Were all odd ducks here.

Full size chevy truck upper from the mid 60s if I remember right.

It wont lower it at all. But it will increase the spindle height, which with the spirit should actually lift it the amount of the taller ball joint. But on the other hand, better camber gain. The need for taller ball joints May be negated by lengthening the lower control arms.

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 PowerDork
12/27/16 7:59 p.m.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/setting-an-amc-on-kill/118362/page1/

singledownloop
singledownloop Reader
12/27/16 8:06 p.m.

Dusterbd13 I can't recall the guys user name right now but I looked up the taller ball joint he used.It was from a full size chevy pickup.I'm doing a taller ball joint because it will lift the spindle height,lowering my car the amount of increased length of longer ball joint.

I agree amc owners,myself included,are definitely odd ducks.

bentwrench
bentwrench Dork
12/28/16 6:43 a.m.

Someone had a pic of a trans-am modified AMC front suspension.

The inner upper arm mounts were relocated.

singledownloop
singledownloop Reader
12/28/16 10:42 a.m.

Bentwrench some people do the "shelby drop" like done on vintage mustangs.The uca is relocated 1" lower then stock in the shock towers.

PseudoSport
PseudoSport Dork
12/28/16 1:27 p.m.

It would be nice if we can change the control arms and ball joint lengths to improve handling without having to modify any pickup points on the body. This way any changes are reversible and easier to replicate.

I originally installed the taller upper ball joint to try and improve the camber curve. It did get better but was still going positive. It also raised the front end 1" because the spring sits ontop of the upper arm. Taller lower balljoint could also help and would not impact ride height. Before making any more changes I'd like to get some suspension measurements and plug them into the calculator below.

http://www.racingaspirations.com/apps/suspension-geometry-calculator/

There are many options for ball joints from stock to circle tract stuff. Maybe using the calculator we can find out how much taller we need to go and find a combination that works for all of us.

singledownloop
singledownloop Reader
12/28/16 1:38 p.m.

Anyone interested check out the following link.He changes the control arm length.The thread is also full of modified amc suspension info.

http://theamcforum.com/forum/mega-modding-suspension-steering_topic53345.html?KW=

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 PowerDork
12/28/16 2:06 p.m.

Ive looked at that quite a bit. Some good ideas there.

PseudoSport
PseudoSport Dork
12/28/16 2:58 p.m.

So the guy is making a wide track Javelin by using a 65" wide f150 rear axle in the rear. To get the front to match he is using a 2" spacer and lengthened the lower control arm 1.120" Since he extended the lower arm he then had to move the upper arm an inch out as well. He also moved the upper mount 1" back towards the firewall to correct caster. I didn't read if he was also moving the upper mount down as well. If not then the camber curve and roll center will not be corrected.

I didn't see why he used Mustang II spindles but my guess is they lower the front 2"? They are also .70" shorter then stock which would make the camber curve worse.

singledownloop
singledownloop Reader
12/28/16 3:15 p.m.

He definitely moved parts around a lot.Drop spindles to lower and a wide selection of brake options are the only reasons I can think of to run the mustang II spindles.Making the camber curve worse is definitely an odd move.

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 PowerDork
12/28/16 3:37 p.m.

While we are doing this, what about brake options for the stock spindles? Did amc use their own proprietary rotors, or someone else's?

Im thinking of a rotor swap to get me 5x5 bolt pattern.

Crackers
Crackers Reader
12/28/16 3:45 p.m.

My AMC is a 68 American Wagon. However, I'm abandoning all the AMC suspension and doing a wholesale body swap onto a SC300 floor pan and associated fiddly bits.

singledownloop
singledownloop Reader
12/28/16 4:33 p.m.

Dusterbd13 for disc brakes press the hubs out of stock drum brake then use whatever rotor you want.To change to 5x5 bolt pattern you'd have to see if the amc hub o.d. was big enough for you to plug the 5x4.5 bolt pattern and re-drill for 5x5 bolt pattern.I've seen several cars with an owner fabbed caliper bracket bolted between the upright and the spindle.This project is on my to do list this winter.I have a friend with a water jet that will probably cut them for me.

Crackers I checked out your car on this site.I have always been a fan of floor pan/chassis swaps.Several years ago I had a 59 rambler American 2 door wagon.Me and a friend put a mustang II front suspension,10 bolt chevy rearend,and set it up for a sbc.He ended up wanting it more then me so I sold it to him.I wish I would've kept it.It was from Arizona so rust free and pretty straight.

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 PowerDork
12/28/16 4:44 p.m.

Mines already a disc brake car. So no seperate hub to mess with, unless i turn a rotor down until its a hub. And then....

They use common gm bearings. I may get lucky.

singledownloop
singledownloop Reader
12/28/16 4:56 p.m.

Mine is also a disc brake car.You can buy old drum brakes just to rob the hub out of.If you would,let me know if you find bearings that let you use a stock chevy rotor.

Crackers
Crackers Reader
12/28/16 5:00 p.m.

Yeah, the car isn't worth anything as is and with its nerdy aesthetics I felt the need to do something weird.

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