BERK IT, TUNA55 WINS! Suspension re-furb on 91 integra?

I'm done trying to shop for a used DD for me. Finally found the right car, and the seller got all flaky on me. Long story.

Per Tuna's suggestion, I'm leisurely looking for a 1st gen. Mazda5 for mama (which was kind of the plan to begin with.) Initially, we had tossed around the idea of trading in the Fit for a NEW 5, but I like the older body style better anyway, so we're keeping the Fit (smart call, I think) which will become my new DD (sans-heated leather and nav, but fuggit, I'll buy a damned heating pad )

And at this point, selling the Integra just seems kind of dumb. At best, it's a $1500 car. More likely it's a $1000 car, at which point, I'd rather hang onto it as an occasional driver/track rat(?)

Anyway, it's got some immediate maintenance issues that need to be addressed. Not the least of which is the fact that every suspension component presumably has 370,000 miles on it. I've been eating up tires for the last few years with the attitude of "berkeley it. I'm not sinking a bunch of money into this thing before I sell it."

Do you guys have any aftermarket OE-style suggestions for control arms? This is foreign territory for me. I don't need ricer bling or adjustability, just reliable OE style. MOOG control arms are ~$50 on eBay. Haven't priced out OEM stuff yet. I have a set of KYB's and lowering springs that I'll throw on at the same time.

Also, any suggestions on the cheapest place to get an OEM timing belt kit? I'm a big fan of using genuine Honda/Acura timing belts and water pumps. Currently 160,000 miles on the current belt/pump I know. I suck.

Do you really need the control arms or would be cheaper/easier/better just to replace the bushings?

Unless they're visibly bent or excessively rusted, rebuild them.

poopshovel wrote: Initially, we had tossed around the idea of trading in the Fit for a NEW 5, but I like the older body style better anyway

Sorry, nothing useful to add. Just wanted to agree with this. The 5's move from awesome doorstop wedge box to sheetmetal interpretive dance about wind was not a good one...

For oem parts I've always had good luck with majestic Honda. As far as a suspension refurb a poly bushing kit has made a night and day difference in my Hondas. They are a huge pain in the ass to install but well worth it IMHO. The only bushings I wouldn't replace with poly are the rear trailing arm bushings. Stick with oem or dorman. Supposedly poly Rta bushings bind but I have no first hand experience with it. Ymmv.

Many Hondas have their ball joints integrated with the control arms. I'm not sure about the Integra specifically, though.

Depends on where you live, but being Honda based, half (or more) of the bushing bolts will be seized solid into the sleeves, so order them too, and make sure you have access to a hotwrench when you start work. Around here, you gotta figure out which part you are sacrificing.

Depends on where you live,

I'm in Georgia. I haven't run into any of those issues in the past. And yeah, F*CK a bunch of replacing a bunch of bushings/ball joints. It's well worth saving the time/frustration to just replace the control arms (assuming $50 ish a crack.) I'm really not trying to turn this into a project.

poopshovel wrote: Initially, we had tossed around the idea of trading in the Fit for a NEW 5, but I like the older body style better anyway, so we're keeping the Fit (smart call, I think) which will become my new DD (sans-heated leather and nav, but fuggit, I'll buy a damned heating pad )

Really tough call, ain't it? Ever since I inherited my wife's Fit, I've been debating back and forth what to do with it. On one hand, the Fit...as great of a car as it is...just isn't my personal cup of tea for a DD. Like you, I'd like a few nice luxury touches, and a car that's a little better at cruising. Yet, for the money I wanted to spend, I had a hard time finding anything that would fit my needs better. Mazda 5 was and still is high on my shopping list for whenever I decide to spend some money. So was the 3. Ultimately, I decided to go with a cheap daily driver...hopefully I'll have more specifics after the weekend. Have the Fit up for sale, but almost hate to do it because it's really a great car.

@Klayfish: Yeah, after shopping used Fits, it just made more sense to buy one new @ 0.9% interest (I know the "new car haters will hate, but yes, I could've paid cash. I'd rather gamble the bank's money and continue to earn a higher rate on my investments.)

Anyway, now, a couple years later, we're not upside down or anything, but a trade would pretty much be a wash. I'll drive it forever, which was kind of the plan to begin with. Even if it's not a luxury cruiser, it's 10 X more comfortable than the integra, more fun in the twisties, has cold A/C, and hell, I'll be racing to rack up the miles to put it out of warranty so I can has SUPAHCHAAGHAAAH!!!

poopshovel wrote: Anyway, now, a couple years later, we're not upside down or anything, but a trade would pretty much be a wash. I'll drive it forever, which was kind of the plan to begin with. Even if it's not a luxury cruiser, it's 10 X more comfortable than the integra, more fun in the twisties, has cold A/C, and hell, I'll be racing to rack up the miles to put it out of warranty so I can has SUPAHCHAAGHAAAH!!!

Ack, that Integra definitely needs its suspension put back in a proper state if you think a Fit is better in the twistys... Fit should feel inadequate and lacking to a properly setup and functioning DA Integra. And the DA chassis is kind of a wet noodle that flexes a lot too...

A few suggestions, if you are planning on making the DA a track car:

Move the weight distribution bias as far forward as possible, 65+% should be the goal.

Dropping the battery weight in half and repositioning it onto the front crossmember really helped with increasing its responsiveness as did a going with a lightweight racing flywheel (8.8lbs).

And for the rear trailing arm, depending on how quick you like the rear to respond, filling in the trailing bushing with 3M windoweld (like you do with the motor mounts, but letting it cure under tension) really livened up the rear and got the tail out but was still nicely controllable - car was almost perfectly neutral even with open differential.

Getting rid of the power steering system and depowering the power steering rack (draining, devalving, and sealing it back up) really made the steering feel come out more on track with just a little more effort at low speeds on DOT-R tires - was not bad daily driving with the Nitto NT-01 either.

DA Integra makes a most excellent FWD track car (better than most other FWD cars), especially the RS model (lightest, no ABS, no moonroof). Has a longer wheelbase compared to a civic for more stability to allow you to be a little more sensitive with the suspension. It sure looks good as well:

I have a special place in my heart for DA RSs... even though I no longer own one any more. The B18A is a lovely sounding motor too...loves to sing all day at 5k+ rpm once you get a lightweight flywheel in there and open up the intake/exhaust. I wish my FR-S sounded as sexy...

Also make sure you really seal the valve cover REALLY WELL to the head with good, high temperature RTV compound to keep oil out of the spark plug area and coming out the front valve cover/head seam. Aftermarket aluminum exhaust cam seal with aerospace quality o-rings also highly recommended as well - much better job at keeping oil in the valve cover than the stock rubber piece.

Moog control arms are fine. For $50 a pop, i absolutely wouldn't be berkeleying with pressing out and in bushings.

What are you planning on doing for the rear, though? There's aftermarket arms that are reasonably cheap.

Swank Force One wrote: Moog control arms are fine. For $50 a pop, i absolutely wouldn't be berkeleying with pressing out and in bushings. What are you planning on doing for the rear, though? There's aftermarket arms that are reasonably cheap.

Cool. Same deal on the rears, though the skunk2 arms do look pretty pimptabulous.

E36 M3 i run Mevotechs on the MX6... for $43 a pop i'd just as soon not berkeley with a balljoint.

Just as a data point - I was pretty happy with the skunk2 front upper arms on a DC2 we used to have. Didn't slip, seemed to be made well enough. They were not cheap though, I want to say $300 for the pair. Dunno what prices are these days as that was nearly 10 years ago.

Poop, as you know, I fully support your Mazda5 decision.

edit - What springs are you putting on there? Will you be low enough to worry it? I guess if you're really going to use it as a track rat then the extra camber might come in handy at some point anyway.

Swank Force One wrote: E36 M3 i run Mevotechs on the MX6... for $43 a pop i'd just as soon not berkeley with a balljoint.

Hell yeah. Doesn't look like they make them for my year though. I'll probably just going to go ahead and order the moogs today. I need to get tires soon too, so I'll take a look while it's up on the lift with the wheels off and see if there's anything else that needs to be addressed. Debating whether I want to throw those lowering springs on or just the struts.

Will you be low enough to worry it?

Otra vez, en ingles? I don't know what springs they are, but they came off a local guy's car who was running in STS. He never had any issues with rubbing or anything.

I vote lowering springs. What struts are going on?

Nvm, i can't read. I see KYBs of some sort.

I learned to drive stick on my dad's '91 LS. I'm not a Honda fanboy, but DA's are definitely in my top 3 or so of favorite Hondas. I would own one again in a heartbeat! That thing was really quick, a blast to drive even bone stock, and back then (not that long ago, early 2000's) I could fill the tank for 15 bucks and it would last a few weeks. Then I bought my own car, and for some reason I got a '93 4-door Civic-I should have just gotten my own DA!

poopshovel wrote:

Will you be low enough to worry it?

Otra vez, en ingles? I don't know what springs they are, but they came off a local guy's car who was running in STS. He never had any issues with rubbing or anything.

My bad - question was will the lowering springs be low enough to necessitate the extra camber adjustment and therefore cost of the skunk2 arms? I'm just referring to alignment here, not rubbing. Obviously, that question is somewhat moot with unknown springs.

I also vote putting the lowering springs on. They'll make it more fun when you do actually drive the thing.

Oh yeah, I'm generally a fan of Moog suspension pieces too. $50 a pop doesn't sound bad to me.

Vracer111 wrote: Ack, that Integra definitely needs its suspension put back in a proper state if you think a Fit is better in the twistys... Fit should feel inadequate and lacking to a properly setup and functioning DA Integra. And the DA chassis is kind of a wet noodle that flexes a lot too...

Actually, having owned both a Fit and an Integra ('96 GS-R), I'd say the Fit has a more capable chassis in the twistys. Yes, the Fit is way underpowered, so it'd get it's a$$ handed to it when the road got straight. But through the corners, a Fit could easily keep up with an Integra. They could keep up with a lot of sports cars through a turn. It's hard to believe...until you drive one.

Klayfish wrote:

Vracer111 wrote: Ack, that Integra definitely needs its suspension put back in a proper state if you think a Fit is better in the twistys... Fit should feel inadequate and lacking to a properly setup and functioning DA Integra. And the DA chassis is kind of a wet noodle that flexes a lot too...

Actually, having owned both a Fit and an Integra ('96 GS-R), I'd say the Fit has a more capable chassis in the twistys. Yes, the Fit is way underpowered, so it'd get it's a$$ handed to it when the road got straight. But through the corners, a Fit could easily keep up with an Integra. They could keep up with a lot of sports cars through a turn. It's hard to believe...until you drive one.

+1. And I just beat the piss out of a 99 GS-R last weekend.

Any thoughts on where to get an OEM timing belt kit online? And anyone know if the belt etc. is the same for all THIRD gens? (Motor is a B18B - not sure what year though.)

Belt is the same for all B18Bs at least.... so it'll be the same for any 3rd gen LS/RS car.

Gates kits from Rockauto are pretty awesome, and it wouldn't surprise me if Gates was the OEM supplier anyways.

gates is what just went into my CRX.... but I found this

http://www.acuraautomotiveparts.org/acura/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=INTEGRA&catcgry2=1991&catcgry3=3DR+GS&catcgry4=KA5MT&catcgry5=CAMSHAFT+-+TIMING+BELT&ListAll=All&vinsrch=no&systemcomp=Engine&vinnoT=&trim=&trans=&view=normal

i used to order from manchester honda, but that was before rockauto. IDK if the honda specialists are cheaper than RA or not.

i've used mevotech and Moog LCA's, and so far so good with both. i recommend you buy Moog since i work for the company that owns Moog. hey, i'd do the same for you. ;-)