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Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
6/21/19 11:53 a.m.

Ekk, I fear the worst. 

Last night I felt the Boxster had a very slight stumble while cruising at steady throttle, but all was ok under any, even light, load.  This morning my wife was on her way to work it stumbled, the check engine light came on and it died.  She called me, I went over there to get her.  By the time I got there it had restarted, moved a few yards and it died again.  Now I'm really worried as once I got there I saw a small puddle of oil then a few drips where she'd moved forward.  Obviously, I hear I may have the dreaded IMS bearing paperweight.

Quick history, chassis now was 96K.  It got a brand new engine at 56K under warranty from Porsche.  I bought the car three years ago with 72K on the clock.  Regular Mobil one oil changes, the last done less than 1K miles ago.  I'm back home figuring out how to get it here to have a look.  Obviously, I'll drain (at least part of) the oil and look for contamination and pull the codes.  What code does the IMS normally throw?  Anything else to look for/check once I get it back here.

Slippery
Slippery GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
6/21/19 12:09 p.m.

Any noise? How is the oil level?

I would not try to start it anymore until you remove the oil and check. 

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
6/21/19 12:27 p.m.

I’ve never heard any noise. Oil level is fine, or at least it was when I checked it this morning before she went South.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
6/21/19 12:29 p.m.

 Oh and in inevitable twist of the knife by that motherberkeleyer fate, we just switched to Flo a few weeks ago for a big savings! And then this morning I got an email from AAA telling me our coverage expired three days ago! Oh well, off to tow it home with the Volvo in a minute. 

docwyte
docwyte UltraDork
6/21/19 12:40 p.m.

IMS doesn't throw a code.  It just throws the engine.

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/21/19 1:05 p.m.

I’d check the oil filter for debris but I don’t think it’s an IMS issue. 

Tom_Spangler
Tom_Spangler GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
6/21/19 1:11 p.m.

The motor just up and dying could be any number of things from minor to major. The motor up and dying AND spitting up oil does not sound good, IMO.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
6/21/19 1:22 p.m.

Ugh. No codes detected. That makes me nervous. Heading underneath next. 

AAZCD
AAZCD Reader
6/21/19 1:35 p.m.

If there's no obvious problem after looking at the oil filter and checking for the source of an oil leak, take a step back and a deep breath. Then treat it like any other car that has those symptoms; methodical troubleshooting before you go straight to catastrophe.

Tyler H
Tyler H GRM+ Memberand UberDork
6/21/19 2:24 p.m.

AOS may have failed....hope for that, even though it still sucks.  It will dump oil down the drivers side head.  If it's dumping oil as if the rear main let go, then that's IMS-y.

IMS failing will throw camshaft deviations >7' on Durametric, but that would require a start-up to evaluate....and Durametric scanner.  

AnthonyGS
AnthonyGS GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
6/21/19 2:42 p.m.

It sounds like an AoS failure a bit to me too which can hydrolock a cylinder if real bad.  It could also be timing related where the IMS gear slips on the shaft.

If its a newer Porsche engine replacement with the larger IMS bearing.m, it is probably not the bearing.

I would pull and cut apart the filter.  I’d also drop the oil pan straight down, and take lots of photos of the pan contents before disturbing them.  After that pull the plugs and use a borescope. 

Failed IMS bearing has been misdiagnosed due to a bad rear main seal and vice versa.  

It could be a minor pain or a major catastrophe.

 

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
6/21/19 2:54 p.m.

OK, I don't think it looks good.  First off I got underneath.  The oil is coming from the back of the engine between it and the trans.  See pic.

Then I dug out an open oil drain pan rather than my normal closed one.  It was dirty having been used for all sorts of things over the years so I cleaned it with mineral spirits.  I then proceeded to drain the oil and remove the filter.  I cut the filter open and this is what I saw.....

A whole lot of nothing.  That's good news.

So I got a small magnet and trolled around the oil pan, almost nothing here, this could have been detritus I missed cleaning the pan.  Still looking good.

Final I poured out the oil taking lot's of care, but E36 M3 happened and I now have the inevitable clean up.  Then I found this, the final death knell.  To me, this looks like bearing material.  Now, there is just this one speck, but there has to be more in the pan.  My drive is on a slight slope, so even with the ass end of the car up on jack stands the front on the oil pan is still slightly downhill, so I assume there is more in there.  I'm sure as hell not pulling it now, too much going on tomorrow and Sunday I go out of town for five days.

I've been haggling over a mint 07 Volvo S60 2.5T (the base model, only 218hp) HE didn't want to budge on price, but I may fold as I need wheels ASAP.  

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
6/21/19 2:57 p.m.

The fat lady may not have sung, but I fear she's warming up for the final aria.

Obviously, the oil pan has to come off, but assuming I find more bearing material then I don't know what the next step is.  Sell as is, rebuild the engine, find another used one?  Probably not the last option as good engines cost more than I paid for the car.  Time to do a rebuild is about to vanish altogether and I'm not sure what value a 99 Auto with a dead engine has.

Tyler H
Tyler H GRM+ Memberand UberDork
6/21/19 3:09 p.m.

In my experience, M96 engines shed more material than I like by nature.  That's not necessarily enough to be worried about. 

It's also my experience that oil drops hang off that low spot on the casting between the engine and transmission.   Get in there deep and see if it is leaking from up high on the right side (facing the rear.)  AOS leakage usually winds up in the same place.

Don't give up yet, and good luck!

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
6/21/19 3:12 p.m.

That is good news. I will pull the oil pan as soon as possible and post photographs.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
6/21/19 5:03 p.m.

 OK. I’ve got the oil pan off. Nothing bad in there, just a couple of very small flakes. So I think I have now convinced myself it is not the IMS bearing. I still see oil coming out between the engine and trans so I am wondering about the RMS seal? At this point I’m debating refilling it with cheap oil and at least starting it again to see what happens. Is that a good idea or not? Thanks for the input guys. 

Cotton
Cotton PowerDork
6/21/19 5:40 p.m.

Congrats man,  that’s great news that it isn’t the IMS!  No codes at all though?  I’m curious as to what is causing it to run intermittently.

AAZCD
AAZCD Reader
6/21/19 5:53 p.m.

+1 to what Tyler said about AOS, drips, and debris.

I would pull the plugs and turn it before cranking it just to be sure to clear any potential hydro-lock

AnthonyGS
AnthonyGS GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
6/21/19 9:38 p.m.

Yes pull plugs and borescope cylinders.  Changing the AoS isn’t expensive just painful.  The RMS same thing.....

That oil will get into the cylinders on a failed AOS and cause bad running.

The 99 IMSB is more robost than the 01-04s.  But with a replacement engine no telling what IMSB is in there.

 

 

 

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
6/22/19 12:59 p.m.

Temporary problem resolution.  What do you do when one car breaks down? Buy another one of course!    This will also become the youngest daughters car once we buy my wife a new car as well. 

Knurled.
Knurled. GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/22/19 1:12 p.m.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson :

That math works for me.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
6/30/19 2:04 p.m.

OK, back from out of town for a few days.  

As I said before I pulled the pan and all looks great, other than one spec of shiny material I posted before it all looks clean in there, brand new in fact.

I also pulled the coils and plugs.  All coils look perfect, no cracking on any of them, probably as they were new with the new engine circa 40K miles ago.  The plugs look good, all a nice color with no oiling. 

I think (please correct me if I'm wrong) but with no oil on them, and no massive smoke screen I don't think it's the AOS, especially as that would have been new with the new engine as well.  The only external issue I can find is this below.  It looks like there is oil dripping out between the engine and bell housing.

 

Given there is no debris so I don't think it's the IMS bearing, could this be an RMS (Rear Main Seal) leak?  IF so, why would that have caused it to stall. restart, move a few yards and stall again?

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
6/30/19 2:26 p.m.

Should I just button it back up, fill it with cheap oil and try starting it again at this point?

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
6/30/19 2:27 p.m.

I did not try restarting it after I got it home in case it was something IMS bearing or other bearing related issue. But based on the condition of the oil and filter I feel it’s safe to do so?

MrChaos
MrChaos GRM+ Memberand Dork
6/30/19 2:30 p.m.

I dont see if it is a manual or auto but could it be a badly contaminated clutch from the oil leak?

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