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thatsnowinnebago
thatsnowinnebago GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
7/20/21 7:25 p.m.

Sorta rambling post incoming. 

Backstory: I've gotten to the point with my truck that I'm starting to look at power mods. I've re-geared it for the bigger tires, and I've taken care of most of the deferred maintenance. I've got 154k on the truck, it has the 4r70w transmission, and 4wd. The internet tells me that's too many miles to bother with and my transmission will explode if I add any horsepower. I'm hoping that's not true. 

Goals: Some more power and staying smog legal. Right now I'm mostly looking at the exhaust, primarily for that sweet V8 rumble, and because I've heard Ford choked these trucks a bit. Is it work replacing the y-pipe and the other bits downstream and keeping the factory exhaust manifolds? I have full intentions of keeping the catalytic converter. I have a cracked manifold right now, so it's a good time to replace them both with shortys if it's worth it. Otherwise I'm thinking a single 3" pipe running from the y-pipe, through a nice sounding muffler, and then to a more protected exit. Maybe a turndown in front of the diff? The factory location behind the passenger side tire is far too low for off-road fun. Same with anything exiting under the bumper. I don't want anything I'll have to yell over on the freeway. 

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
7/20/21 7:37 p.m.

351 mostly fits in the same hole.

Mr_Asa
Mr_Asa PowerDork
7/20/21 9:12 p.m.

I liked Hooker Aerochambers, if they still make those.
If it exits underneath the truck its supposed to be louder in-cabin than if it exits outside the truck.  Maybe a side-exit, like the late model Lightnings?

amg_rx7 (Forum Supporter)
amg_rx7 (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
7/21/21 6:40 a.m.

Supercharger?

bonylad
bonylad Reader
7/21/21 6:52 a.m.

GT40 swap. At least the upper and lower. Good exhaust and a drop in filter, and a chip tune. Should be where you want to be.  I like the idea of your exhaust.  

ddavidv
ddavidv UltimaDork
7/21/21 6:58 a.m.

GT40 parts were Ford's recipe of success to make the Lightning crank out 250-ish HP.  The L's also had factory headers and a sorta-dual exhaust system. You can't really do a lot with a camshaft as the speed density system won't tolerate much. Lots of guys have gone to MAF from Mustangs though.

93gsxturbo
93gsxturbo UltraDork
7/21/21 7:10 a.m.

Remember the 5.0 in the truck is a completely different motor than the 5.0HO in the Mustangs.  Different internals, roller vs flat tappet cam, different firing order, computer, accessories, etc.  Thanks Ford.

I had a 1995 F150 with the 5.0, and I would have a hard time doing anything to it but gas, brakes, and tires.  Great looking, comfortable truck, but never a power house.  

I think fondly back to an episode of Two Guys Garage (or one of those other shows) where they did a build of a 454SS vs a same era Lightning, and for even money the 454SS stomped a mud hole in the Lightning.  

Cactus
Cactus HalfDork
7/21/21 7:56 a.m.

Shouldn't a 95 have a maf sensor?

If you want to go after power easily, carb swaps aren't unheard of.

thatsnowinnebago
thatsnowinnebago GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
7/21/21 10:11 a.m.

In reply to Cactus :

It does have a MAF. Seems like that's the way to go over the speed density. 

Rodan
Rodan SuperDork
7/21/21 10:14 a.m.
Streetwiseguy said:

351 mostly fits in the same hole.

So does a 460, and it will make more power and get better mileage than the 351W... 

In all seriousness, shorties +exhaust with a modern hi-flow cat should show some improvement.  If it's MAF, you can fiddle with the intake and to some extent, the cam.  Remember that the truck setups were biased towards low-end torque, but for 302 to really make any power it's going to need to rev a bit.  That means intake/heads/cam.

If it were me, I'd do the exhaust and call it done.

thatsnowinnebago
thatsnowinnebago GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
7/21/21 10:16 a.m.

In reply to Mr_Asa :

That would explain why my 90 bronco was so loud inside. I had a turn down tip on the 40-series muffler. If only 35-year old me could talk to 19-year old me. 

APEowner
APEowner GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
7/21/21 10:20 a.m.
Rodan said:
Streetwiseguy said:

351 mostly fits in the same hole.

So does a 460, and it will make more power and get better mileage than the 351W... 

In all seriousness, shorties +exhaust with a modern hi-flow cat should show some improvement.  If it's MAF, you can fiddle with the intake and to some extent, the cam.  Remember that the truck setups were biased towards low-end torque, but for 302 to really make any power it's going to need to rev a bit.  That means intake/heads/cam.

If it were me, I'd do the exhaust and call it done.

This

Cactus
Cactus HalfDork
7/21/21 10:24 a.m.

From what I understand, the stock cam is beyond garbage, and even a very mild aftermarket cam will wake it right up.

thatsnowinnebago
thatsnowinnebago GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
7/21/21 10:40 a.m.

In reply to Cactus :

Do any supporting mods need to be done with a mild cam? Or can I just pull out the old one and stab the new one in?

thatsnowinnebago
thatsnowinnebago GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
7/27/21 12:31 p.m.

Bringing this back up to ask about factory exhaust manifolds vs shorty headers. I've got a cracked manifold so I need to replace it at some point. Is it worth it to get shorty headers instead of a new manifold?

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/27/21 12:58 p.m.

The general rule of thumb is that shortys are mildly better than manifolds, but I see no reason not to do full-length or at least mid-length.

Regarding the cam swap... if it's a flat-tappet cam, you need new lifters as well.  Any cam swap will likely need new springs to match the new profile.  Faster ramps, higher lift will require more seat and open pressure.  Also, if you go far enough with cam that you need springs, you likely also need a higher stall torque converter.

The differences between Mustang motors has been mentioned, but it's not a big difference.  The firing order comes from the cam and which wires are plugged in where on the distributor

What are the gears and tires?  My concern is making the torque peak too high with the heavy/large tires fighting you.

Here is the real skinny.  Let's say you have two identical motors with only different bore/stroke.  One is a 5.0L, the other is a 6.0L.  If you use the same parameters; heads, cam, induction, compression - they will make the same hp.  It's just that the 5.0L will make peak power at 5500 rpms and the 6.0L will do it at 5000 rpms.  Torque in the 6.0L will be much greater, and have a lower peak RPM.

For that reason, I suggest more cubes.  If you try to push that 302 past about 250 hp, I think you'll be very mismatched... you'll have a torque peak at 4000 rpms, but you need it at 2500.  You'll be trying to compensate for the high torque peak with a higher stall converter and it could very easily be a complete chore to drive.  What you need is early torque, which is easy with big displacement.

If you don't want to have to do a transmission as well by switching ot a BBF, you could do a 351 Clevor (truck block with 5.0L heads), but yuck.  Heavy-ish, long stroke, just yuck.  Stroker kits for the 302 are pretty inexpensive and with an overbore you can get 347 which is a big help.

If you want to stick with the 5.0L, GT40 heads (found on zillions of Explorers), a very mild cam, like no more than 205 degrees intake duration.  GT40 heads don't respond super well to increased lift, but some 1.6:1 rockers can squeeze a bit more in.  Full length headers, legal cats, bob's your uncle.

Edit.... and a chip/tune.  Going carb would be nice, but not smog legal.

Barb_Dwyer
Barb_Dwyer New Reader
7/27/21 1:27 p.m.

In reply to thatsnowinnebago :

Ford made the Lightning's 250 horsepower possible by using GT40 parts.  As well as factory headers and an exhaust system that is sort of dual, the L's also had a factory spoiler. As the speed density system will not tolerate much over a camshaft, you can't really do a lot with it. However, there have been lots of Mustangs that went to MAF.

thatsnowinnebago
thatsnowinnebago GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
7/27/21 1:29 p.m.

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

Gears/tires are 4.10s and 33x10.5

Barb_Dwyer
Barb_Dwyer New Reader
7/27/21 1:33 p.m.

In reply to thatsnowinnebago :

Ford's recipe for success with its Lightning was GT40 parts.  As well as factory headers and an exhaust system that is sort of dual, the L's also had a factory spoiler. As the speed density system will not tolerate much over a camshaft, you can't really do a lot with it. MAF has attracted a lot of former Mustangs.

thatsnowinnebago
thatsnowinnebago GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
7/27/21 2:08 p.m.

These Summit shorty headers are pretty temping. Similar price to factory manifolds and has an CARB EO number. 

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/27/21 2:11 p.m.
thatsnowinnebago said:

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

Gears/tires are 4.10s and 33x10.5

That seems like a great match for a wee bit more cam, heads, and compression.

Cactus
Cactus HalfDork
7/27/21 3:57 p.m.

A 95 truck should have both MAF and roller lifters.

The cheapest head upgrade is to get GT40p heads off a 97+ 5.0 explorer out of a junkyard. Those should be worth 20-40hp (verified by unknown internet sources) on their own over stock E7 heads. They're not worth paying $1000 for on eBay. Get them cheap or go aluminum. You should be able to swap to a new cam without buying new lifters (but obviously inspect the ones you have and replace if necessary) add headers to that mix and you should have a noticeable performance bump without breaking the bank.

 

 

I'm trying to do similar upgrades to a flat cam SD 351w. I've got the harness to swap to a MAF system and an E4OD from the stock C6, but the cost of parts to finish that off are more money than I can justify on a secondary truck.

jimbbski
jimbbski SuperDork
7/27/21 9:36 p.m.

I just happen to have some Ford parts that I don't need.  A stock Mustang 5.0 HO roller cam, a Cobra spec. roller cam, a set of mildly ported GT40 heads, a set of Crane/Ford 1.7 roller rockers, and a pair of Ford Lighting shorty headers. I was going to install these parts on my '88 Ford E250 van with 5.8L but never got around to it. 

SkinnyG (Forum Supporter)
SkinnyG (Forum Supporter) UberDork
7/27/21 10:45 p.m.

Boost.

Keep everything else stock.

slowbird
slowbird UltraDork
7/28/21 1:19 a.m.

In reply to Cactus :

The only problem with GT40P heads is the differently angled spark plugs. This apparently causes clearance issues with some headers. Of course you could re-use the stock Explorer manifolds, or try to find out-of-production GT40P-specific headers.

I'm planning to eventually upgrade the stock 5.0 in my Cougar so I may end up with this problem.

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