I'm doing my first track day at Roebling Road in February so I'm putting the Mustang in track shape. My next thing is to get the brakes right. I'm ordering StopTech Street Performance pads for front and rear this week. I need to flush the brake fluid and upgrade to something that won't boil.
So..what fluid?
What's the easiest way for one person to flush out the system? One of the pressure bleeder rigs? Learn me.
Any DOT5.1 fluid will be a big step above the everyday DOT3 junk, but Castrol SRF is the best of the best if that's what you're after. I find that Delphi Lockheed DOT5.1 is a good value.
I'm also a fan of speed bleeder valves for one-man bleeding.
Generally for track days, good fresh DOT3 fluid is fine as you're not racing.
ATE Type 200 (formerly available in Blue aka Super Blue) is one of the better fluids available
A pressure bleeding rig is indeed a great way to flush the system by yourself. You can build one yourself fairly cheaply:
http://faculty.ccp.edu/faculty/dreed/campingart/jettatech/bleeder/
http://www.instructables.com/id/A-DIY-Pressure-Brake-Bleeder/
In reply to GameboyRMH:
I'd go with a good DOT 4 instead:
http://www.braketech.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=81:whats-the-difference-between-dot-5-and-dot-51-brake-fluid&catid=18:faq&Itemid=79
Fluid-DOT4 of some flavor and not that DOT3/4 crap Valvoline from the FLAPS.
Flush, I posted my method in another recent thread, but almost empty the reservoir, refill with new fluid, gravity bleed farthest brake until fluid level is less then before the fill. Two person pressure bleed after gravity bleeding the other 3 wheels. That other person is only needed for 15 minutes tops.
Another +1 for ATE 200, and if you're going to be doing track days, or simply working on your own cars and value your time, drop $50 on a Motive pressure bleeder. I'm stunned at the people I see at the track with $30k + in their race car doing a $2000 weekend and they're still doing the "PRESS...HOLD...ARE YOU PRESSING?" dance.
I can swap wheels, pads and bleed all 4 corners on my M3 in a leisurely 40 minutes. The race car has 2 brake masters so it takes a couple minutes longer. It's paid for itself over and over and over.
I used to run ATE 200. Now I run Motul RBF 660. Both are very good track day fluids. The Motul has a higher dry boil point, but it sucks up moisture from the atmosphere faster than ATE, so Motul needs to be replaced more often.
I wouldn't bother with DOT 5.1 fluid: "There are no DOT 5.1 brake fluids that exceed the dry and wet boiling points of the best of currently available DOT 4 racing brake formulas." <--Quoted from StopTech
Stefan (Not Bruce) wrote: In reply to GameboyRMH: I'd go with a good DOT 4 instead: http://www.braketech.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=81:whats-the-difference-between-dot-5-and-dot-51-brake-fluid&catid=18:faq&Itemid=79
this ... Dot 4.0
and I second the ATE... I've been using it for pushing 15 yrs for track and autoX fluid
the EASIEST way for a one person flush is to use the gravity method ... up on stands, go to the wheel furthest from the MC and with a drain bottle attached to the drain plug, loosen it (I then give the brake pedal a push or 2 (best done with some used fluid in the bottle and the tube end covered by the waste fluid .... then just walk away ... the old fluid will trickle out ... oh, forgot ... use something like a turkey baster and pull most of the old fluid out of the MC before starting, and fill with the new fluid.
coming back to check on the progress on a regular basis ... you don't want the draining to get to the point that it allows air to enter the MC ... eventually you'll see fresh fluid exiting the drain plug ... close it off, and after making sure the MC is still filled to the top, go to the next furthest wheel and repeat ... then the next,and then the last ..
takes a while, but it allows you to be doing other things while does the "work" for ya
good luck... have fun
motomoron wrote: Another +1 for ATE 200, and if you're going to be doing track days, or simply working on your own cars and value your time, drop $50 on a Motive pressure bleeder. I'm stunned at the people I see at the track with $30k + in their race car doing a $2000 weekend and they're still doing the "PRESS...HOLD...ARE YOU PRESSING?" dance. I can swap wheels, pads and bleed all 4 corners on my M3 in a leisurely 40 minutes. The race car has 2 brake masters so it takes a couple minutes longer. It's paid for itself over and over and over.
Motive is great ... assuming you have a vehicle that they make the air tight attachment for ... if not, it's a major PITA ... in no way worth the hassle
mines in a rotting cardboard box in the back of the shop, never to be used again (at least by me 
)
Anybody have a strong opinion on one-man bleeding? So far I know of:
Speed bleeders. Downside is you have to re-buy every time you buy a new car (and I do that frequently).
Pressure bleeders. Tried one of the homemade versions, but couldn't find a PVC fitting that worked with a BMW master cylinder.
Vacuum bleeders. Here I'm thinking about the hand pump type that you can get at auto parts stores.
My needs are one-person bleeding ability and quietness is important. Most brake flushes occur after everybody else is in bed. 
speedblind wrote: Anybody have a strong opinion on one-man bleeding? So far I know of: Speed bleeders. Downside is you have to re-buy every time you buy a new car (and I do that frequently). Pressure bleeders. Tried one of the homemade versions, but couldn't find a PVC fitting that worked with a BMW master cylinder. Vacuum bleeders. Here I'm thinking about the hand pump type that you can get at auto parts stores. My needs are one-person bleeding ability and quietness is important. Most brake flushes occur after everybody else is in bed.
You can buy the Motive caps separately. That's what I did for my Porsches and the BMW (use the same cap) with my DIY pressure bleeder. Works a treat.
wbjones wrote:motomoron wrote: Another +1 for ATE 200, and if you're going to be doing track days, or simply working on your own cars and value your time, drop $50 on a Motive pressure bleeder. I'm stunned at the people I see at the track with $30k + in their race car doing a $2000 weekend and they're still doing the "PRESS...HOLD...ARE YOU PRESSING?" dance. I can swap wheels, pads and bleed all 4 corners on my M3 in a leisurely 40 minutes. The race car has 2 brake masters so it takes a couple minutes longer. It's paid for itself over and over and over.Motive is great ... assuming you have a vehicle that they make the air tight attachment for ... if not, it's a major PITA ... in no way worth the hassle mines in a rotting cardboard box in the back of the shop, never to be used again (at least by me
Since you're only supposed to be using about 15psi, a modified spare stock cap works fine. Really.
I looked at the motive cap..it was $40. The full bleeder was $68. I have a brand new garden sprayer in the shed, a dorman mc cap is like $8 and I can get some tube and fittings for another $10. Diy it is. Leaning toward the ATE 200 since I'm in the humid south.
Now, let's open a can of worms. I want to drive to the track and run on the same pads. Street tires, my first track day, heavy car. What pads should I run?
The Stoptech Street Performance pads should be fine. Centric says they are good for 900F, and I use mine for both street and track. Before you install the Stoptech pads, I would strongly recommend either having your current rotors re-surfaced (if they have enough material to keep them in-spec) to remove all trace of the current pad material, or (even better) install a brand new set of Centric 120 Series blank rotors at the same time you do the pads. Either way, before you head to the track, do Stoptech's prescribed bed-in procedure to get a solid transfer layer of pad material onto the rotors. You won't believe how much this will increase the break bite, and it will also dramarically reduce your brake temperatures on the track.
In reply to wbjones:
What do you want for it? I'd love a second one to stay in the race car tools bin.
In reply to WildScotsRacing:
You talking about these rotors? Why those in particular?
I like the idea of the Stoptech pads and centric rotors since I can get all of them through Rock Auto. I've heard a few disparaging comments on some forums about the pads on track, but drivers and car setup make such a difference on brake wear that I sort of take it with a grain of salt.
DOT 4 was what we always ran. Only use DOT 5 if the car calls for it.
If this is your first track day don't be surprised if you boil the brakes.
Bring an extra set of pads, rotors and a couple bottles of fluid just in case. More than likely you will not need them but better to have them as they are consumables especially with a heavy car like yours.
Also be mindful of cooling your brakes after a session. I use to just roll up and down the access roads using no brakes for a bit. Helps to prevent rotors from warping or cracking.
I think some of you are missing that DOT5.1 is a DOT3/4 compatible fluid unlike DOT5.
DOT4 fluid could work too and possibly be a better deal than DOT5.1, but I wouldn't rule out DOT5.1 just because there are some very good DOT4 fluids.
In any case, anyone who uses their brakes harder than the average soccer mom should consider DOT3 to be obsolete.
GameboyRMH wrote: I think some of you are missing that DOT5.1 is a DOT3/4 compatible fluid unlike DOT5. DOT4 fluid could work too and possibly be a better deal than DOT5.1, but I wouldn't rule out DOT5.1 just because there are some very good DOT4 fluids. In any case, anyone who uses their brakes harder than the average soccer mom should consider DOT3 to be obsolete.
No, not missing that at all. It just isn't better than a good DOT 4, except perhaps at storage, but then again the cars should be driven and the fluid changed fairly often if you're taking it to the track.
PERHAPS better at storage, but while dot5.1 maynot be hygroscopic it still absorbs moisture from the air
I'll be a dissenter and point out that DOT5 works really well on systems that were not designed for it. I ran it for years on my Alfa- great stuff.
The only issue I ever had was changing to and from it. The supplied ran out, and I moved to ATE Super Blue, which does work well in Ate brakes.
BTW, don't over think it, or fear it. You'll know when your brakes are going- slow down, get off the track, and don't ride the brakes- then you can address the issue.
GameboyRMH wrote: I think some of you are missing that DOT5.1 is a DOT3/4 compatible fluid unlike DOT5. DOT4 fluid could work too and possibly be a better deal than DOT5.1, but I wouldn't rule out DOT5.1 just because there are some very good DOT4 fluids. In any case, anyone who uses their brakes harder than the average soccer mom should consider DOT3 to be obsolete.
we're not missing it ... just haven't seen any reason to make the switch ... and all the high temp fluids readily available tend to be DOT4
alfadriver wrote: I'll be a dissenter and point out that DOT5 works really well on systems that were not designed for it. I ran it for years on my Alfa- great stuff.
DOT5 is different from DOT5.1
and as far as I know DOT5 isn't compatible with most existing systems out there
wbjones wrote:alfadriver wrote: I'll be a dissenter and point out that DOT5 works really well on systems that were not designed for it. I ran it for years on my Alfa- great stuff.DOT5 is different from DOT5.1 and as far as I know DOT5 isn't compatible with most existing systems out there
It isn't- DOT5 is silicon based. Makes a mess if you mix them. But it worked great in my Alfa.
Compatible is relative- it would not have been an option had it destroyed the materials in the systems. It does work, and it's not hygrosopic. Plus- it does not strip paint- which is nice if you are clumsy.
I used those StopTech pads on a 3600-pound 400HP track car for a couple seasons of HPDE and I never had a problem. They aren't the ultimate in stopping power at the end of the front straight, but they don't fade, they don't cost much, they last fine, you can leave them on the car all the time, and they feel much like the stock pads you're used to.
I use the Motul RBF 600 if I plan to track the car for the whole 9-month season, and the ATE 200 super if I only plan to track it for 60 days after the fluid change. Never had a problem following this protocol for about 40 days of HPDE so far, and it's humid as all hell here in Va-Dist-Ma. The wet boil point on the Motul is high enough that you can leave it in there for 9 months without issue. It cost twice as much as the ATE 200, so the price is a wash, but it saves me some time.
The cheapo vac bleeder kit from Harbor Freight works okay; the Bavarian Auto BMW-specific pressure bleeder works great and faster, but it costs more. I have cause to bleed a lot of BMW brakes, so I paid up for the Bavarian after a while and I have been happy I did.
This is just my specific experience. YMMV.
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