Building a Racecar with 15 Korean middle schoolers.

Hey guys,

I'm an English teacher in Korea (originally from Nevada) and I somehow talked my principal into okaying a racecar building class. I've got 15 kids with absolutely no experience but lots of enthusiasm lined up and a space to make it happen.

We're going to be very grassroots. Budget is about 700 bucks. We'll probably use a Kia Pride (aka Ford Festiva) or a Dawoo Tico (88 Suzuki Alto) or maybe, maybe a 1.3 liter first generation Hyundai Accent.

Let me know if you have any ideas to make my class cooler and I promise I'll post updates as it progresses.

I would think more people might have played with Hyundais here, than anything else.

What kind of kids? Real young ones? Or around driving age? (Not sure of Korean driving requirements)

What are your goals? Faster, handle better, drag race, look cool? Little bit of everything, perhaps? Can you fabricate things, or are you looking for kits and bolt ons?

Sounds cool! I know a lot of guys on here are about Festivas so you should be able to get good advice. Accents are also cool, not too sure on the Tico/Alto.

Anyway, I look forward to seeing what you come up with and good luck

A few sets of basic hand tools can be used to strip off all the "extra" parts, kids are best at taking things apart. Leave two front seats in, it's way more fun to beat on a POS with a passenger. Add some camber up front (slots are free, camber bolts are close to it) and a rear sway bar if you're feeling ambitious. Spend the remaining budget on two good helmets and the stickiest tires you can get. Let the giggling begin.

Bryce

Appleseed wrote: I would think more people might have played with Hyundais here, than anything else. What kind of kids? Real young ones? Or around driving age? (Not sure of Korean driving requirements) What are your goals? Faster, handle better, drag race, look cool? Little bit of everything, perhaps? Can you fabricate things, or are you looking for kits and bolt ons?

The Pride (Festiva) is the best selling car in Korea's history, and they have pretty good parts interchangeability. They're also cheap.

The Tico is the cheapest car anyone can think of, and based off the relatively common Japanese market Suzuki Alto.

And you're absolutely right about people playing with Hyundais, the only problem is that the aforementioned demand makes them all too expensive, except maybe for a thrashed 1.3 liter Accent circa 1994.

My students are 7th, 8th and 9th graders. The curriculum is to improve braking distance (from like 30 mph), accelleration (over about 100 feet) and to improve the time around a figure eight with a 25 ft distance between the cones. It's actually pretty similar to the 200X challenge minus the beauty contest and plus a braking test.

My fabrication skills are passable (barely), and I'm going to be teaching the kids how to make stuff. We aren't buying anything in kit form.

My plan for now was to strip-gut it, fabricate a "cold air" intake that will probably have no filter and stick straight through the hood, hack off the extraneous exhaust bits, make brake cooling ducts (useless for the performance part, but I'm trying to teach a bit of thermodynamics for dummies), and then rip apart a fridge/filling cabinet/whatever to make a rocking aero kit, complete with splitter and big rear spoiler. Tasteless and useless I know, but the kids will like it.

Past that I'm going to be looking for some used tires/wheels, truck shocks and possibly fabing up the mounts for a sway bar.

Stuc wrote: Sounds cool! I know a lot of guys on here are about Festivas so you should be able to get good advice. Accents are also cool, not too sure on the Tico/Alto. Anyway, I look forward to seeing what you come up with and good luck

Yah, as soon as I recovered from the shock of the principal actually okaying my project I've been giddy. They're paying me (not much, admittedly) to play with cars and teach kids geek stuff. If only they knew I'd do both for free.

Nashco wrote: A few sets of basic hand tools can be used to strip off all the "extra" parts, kids are best at taking things apart. Leave two front seats in, it's way more fun to beat on a POS with a passenger. Add some camber up front (slots are free, camber bolts are close to it) and a rear sway bar if you're feeling ambitious. Spend the remaining budget on two good helmets and the stickiest tires you can get. Let the giggling begin. Bryce

Great idea on the camber/caster. Every car I can reasonably expect to afford has a strut front end.

Thanks to everybody for the suggestions!

Your plan sounds great. I agree with Nashco's suggestions 100%.

Yes, go with the Pride (Festiva), pull the suspension and brakes off an Avella and drop in a Mazda B6D. Not sure what Korean cars came with the B6D. I think the Famillia has one if you have those over there.

Id bet you could teach allot about aerodynamics while fabing up spoilers and skirts out of old metal cabinet parts. And there always a rear mounted turbo for the acceleration part, regardless of vehicle make.

Sweet - I would love to have a Tico race car. I could even park it sideways in the back of my garage! And unskilled or not, I bet 15 enthusiastic middle schoolers will be more helpful than my lazy friends.

Anyway, I think it would be easy to demonstrate how popular tuning upgrades (intake, exhaust, aero) may make a car look and sound cool, but really don't make a really significant performance improvement (at this level, anyway). Then try weight reduction, suspension tweaks and sticky tires for comparison.

Any chance on getting the running bits from an EVO III and transplanting those into an early Accent?
Who needs aero when you have power? And, judging by the posts of Gord, it doesn't look like there are too many chances for top-speed runs in Korea.

F=ma: remove weight to show it gets faster, add weight to show it gets slower. add weight at one end to show the effect on handling balance.

F=mu*N: baseline performance on four street tires, then add race tires to one axle and measure performance again. then swap the race tires to the other axle and do it again. then put four race tires on it and do it again.

sounds like the coolest middle school project ever!

+1, Plenty of opportunity for physics classes on a car.

MrBenjamonkey wrote: My plan for now was to strip-gut it, fabricate a "cold air" intake that will probably have no filter and stick straight through the hood, hack off the extraneous exhaust bits, make brake cooling ducts (useless for the performance part, but I'm trying to teach a bit of thermodynamics for dummies), and then rip apart a fridge/filling cabinet/whatever to make a rocking aero kit, complete with splitter and big rear spoiler. Tasteless and useless I know, but the kids will like it.

Be careful about the tasteless/useless mods...you're literally teaching them bad habits if you go down that road. If you do those useless/tasteless mods, let them get all excited about it, then show them how the car is actually slower, less robust, etc. because of them. At least then if they still appreciate the tasteless/useless mods, they'll at least be informed and understand that the car performs worse even if they think it looks cool.

Bryce

I know the hyundai isnt likely, but it has been done by some on this forum (bigger budget)

look up Gimp for info on his old car if you go that route.

heres some inspiration

At one point in its life it was a turbo SM ride, but has since become a more competitive FSP car with its new owner.

Sounds like a ton of fun!!! If you go with the Festiva/Pride, Ford Aspire (Kia Avella ??? IIRC) hubs will give you bigger brakes, and a 4 X 100 lug pattern, which should make finding appropriate wheels a little easier. You'll be amazed at how much weight you can get out of there. The doors really heavy for such a small car, so gut the heck out of 'em!

Best of luck! Can't wait for more updates...and PICS!

If you are using Korean school children to build a race car, what part of the child is being used for the engine?

I agree with the Kia Pride as the basis for the project. Plus you could play off the name.

phaze1todd wrote: Yes, go with the Pride (Festiva), pull the suspension and brakes off an Avella and drop in a Mazda B6D. Not sure what Korean cars came with the B6D. I think the Famillia has one if you have those over there.

If I end up with a Pride and the class goes well, I might keep it after the semester ends and swap in a b8p from a Kia Sephia. Supposedly its almost a direct bolt in and it makes 122 hp.

The Avella, hmm, I didn't know about that. Junkyard here we come.

Nashco wrote:

MrBenjamonkey wrote: My plan for now was to strip-gut it, fabricate a "cold air" intake that will probably have no filter and stick straight through the hood, hack off the extraneous exhaust bits, make brake cooling ducts (useless for the performance part, but I'm trying to teach a bit of thermodynamics for dummies), and then rip apart a fridge/filling cabinet/whatever to make a rocking aero kit, complete with splitter and big rear spoiler. Tasteless and useless I know, but the kids will like it.

Be careful about the tasteless/useless mods...you're literally teaching them bad habits if you go down that road. If you do those useless/tasteless mods, let them get all excited about it, then show them how the car is actually slower, less robust, etc. because of them. At least then if they still appreciate the tasteless/useless mods, they'll at least be informed and understand that the car performs worse even if they think it looks cool. Bryce

The idea was to build something that would work if we ever got the crapwagon in question up over 100 mph.

But since we're never going to exceed 100 mpg, I like your idea for testing the car with/without the aero stuff.

poopshovel wrote: Sounds like a ton of fun!!! If you go with the Festiva/Pride, Ford Aspire (Kia Avella ??? IIRC) hubs will give you bigger brakes, and a 4 X 100 lug pattern, which should make finding appropriate wheels a little easier. You'll be amazed at how much weight you can get out of there. The doors really heavy for such a small car, so gut the heck out of 'em! Best of luck! Can't wait for more updates...and PICS!

I'm buying something this weekend. Right now the leader is a 91 Pride Sedan with a 1.3 L and 5 speed.

http://www.tsikot.biz/wp-content/uploads/classipress/kia-pride-lx-sedan-9-974965784.jpg

Like this one except ratty and red with stock wheels.

AngryCorvair wrote: F=ma: remove weight to show it gets faster, add weight to show it gets slower. add weight at one end to show the effect on handling balance. F=mu*N: baseline performance on four street tires, then add race tires to one axle and measure performance again. then swap the race tires to the other axle and do it again. then put four race tires on it and do it again. sounds like the coolest middle school project ever!

Absolutely great idea. I don't think I'll have the budget to get race tires (hard to find in Korea) but I will be able to compare the rock hard commuter crap to something better.

I'm thinking we can retest the car after each phase. Like after the three or four classes it takes to strip it, try one. Then after tires, try two. Extra shocks and maybe a sway bar, try three. Etc.

MrBenjamonkey wrote: I don't think I'll have the budget to get race tires (hard to find in Korea) but I will be able to compare the rock hard commuter crap to something better.

Considering they make bunches of tires there, it seems like it's just a matter of figuring out who to ask. Demand might be low making it difficult to find a place to sell them, but it seems like supply would be great. I bet if you could get the right person on the other end of an email and explain that you're trying to teach Korean kids how to make cars go faster with sticky tires, you could probably even get them for free or near-free.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tire_companies

Kumho
Hankook
Nexen

Just an idea.

Bryce

Start those Koreans young. This is my adopted daughter from Seoul, South Korea - At Road America Vintage Race last year - not my car, but the daughter was thrilled that the owner let her sit in his car.

pete240z wrote: Start those Koreans young. This is my adopted daughter from Seoul, South Korea - At Road America Vintage Race last year - not my car, but the daughter was thrilled that the owner let her sit in his car.

What a cutie!