Robbie
Robbie PowerDork
8/6/18 7:41 a.m.

Idea is simple. Take 86 NA automatic car with blown HG, a separate but supposedly good supercharged engine/trans, and a pile of parts to a hotel parking lot in gainesville, leave the next day with a running/driving supercharged aw11.

The question is the pile of parts - I know having the right parts going in will be crucial since we probably can't just run to autozone for an (insert basically any part here). Here's what I think we will need at a minimum. Please let me know how wrong I am! (first we are figuring out which transmission we actually have; e51 or c50/52 or something else)

  1. Axles - need to match the transmission
  2. Rear hubs - if we have the sc axles we need the sc hubs... (https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/aw11-supercharging-for-rallycross-on-a-budget/139627/page1/)
  3. Fuel pump - sounds like the supercharged version got a better pump?
  4. Shifter cables - these might be slightly different than NA shifter cables, I dunno yet if they are close enough to work - bueller?
  5. Ecu/engine wiring loom
  6. Alternator/waterpump/intake/throttlebody/exhaust manifold/etc (if the extra engine hasn't been disassembled these are all probably there, I hope)
  7. intercooler and tubing (BOV? extra other necessary accessories in the intake system for an 80's supercharged factory toyota?)
  8. Clutch pedal + master + slave cylinder + any related tubing, I think we will also need a brake pedal from a MT car
  9. Mounts - there are 3 transmission mounts and 1 engine mount on MR2s. The rubber pieces and the car side are (I THINK) interchangeable, but the metal bracketry bolted to the trans might be slightly different, can anyone confirm?
  10. Engine sensors, like MAF and o2 - the rest I would think (hope) are still assembled to the motor
  11. MT shifter itself
  12. Do we need that "regular or premium fuel" dashboard switch or can we just hardwire that to premium?

Radiator hoses? fuel lines? belts? pulleys? an extra heaping helping of oh-help-me?

Thanks in advance

Fitzauto
Fitzauto Dork
8/6/18 8:06 a.m.

Ive got a supercharged pump I could donate. Pretty sure it still works.

pinchvalve
pinchvalve MegaDork
8/6/18 8:07 a.m.

The fuel pump is on top of the fuel tank, essentially behind the shifter.  IIRC, you have to drop the tank to replace it.  Its possible you can swap it by removing lots of center console trim, but I remember dropping the tank to have to swap the pump. That means getting lots of under trays out of the way, and lifting the car quite a bit.  You will also have to lift the car enough to get the engine out, so plan on lots of jacks, stands and cribbing.  

I took a bunch of random photos during my rebuild as reference to document the build and remember where things went.  Maybe they will be of some help to you. MR2 Build

Robbie
Robbie PowerDork
8/6/18 8:18 a.m.
Fitzauto said:

Ive got a supercharged pump I could donate. Pretty sure it still works.

That is an amazing and generous offer. Pm incoming.

Robbie
Robbie PowerDork
8/6/18 8:22 a.m.

In reply to pinchvalve :

Interesting about the fuel pump. I'll look into that.

I will also probably spend most of the rest of the day oogling your photos.

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
8/6/18 9:37 a.m.

I love the idea but as I wrote earlier thread

 

 

John Welsh said:

I sold my MR2 SC back in 2004. Even at that time, 14 years ago, it was hard to find SC axle half shafts. 

The SC came with a stronger cv/axle to accommodate the additional power. These shafts were the desire of anyone who turbocharged or upgraded the power of their NA MR2. 

I would try to source these axles first. 

pimpm3
pimpm3 SuperDork
8/6/18 10:24 a.m.

Changing a 1st gen mr2 fuel pump is an awful undertaking.  Conveniently cutting a hole in the center hump should make it less terrible proposition.

Robbie
Robbie PowerDork
8/6/18 10:49 a.m.

In reply to John Welsh :

Yes, I am loud and clear on that. I am hoping the axles are included in sv's parts stash, IF the trans he has is in fact the correct supercharged trans. 

I know the axles must match the trans so sourcing axles is high priority.

Robbie
Robbie PowerDork
8/6/18 10:51 a.m.

In reply to pimpm3 :

I was just reading about that too. Weight reduction!

Jim Pettengill
Jim Pettengill HalfDork
8/6/18 10:52 a.m.

Engine cover to clear the intercooler?  I know the SC had a different, tsaler cover, don't know if it's actually required.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
8/6/18 10:59 a.m.

I’m just checking in, to check in. 

singleslammer
singleslammer PowerDork
8/6/18 11:00 a.m.

It might be easier to find a N/A transmission and axles and sell the turbo transmission. They will likely survive. Probably wink

edizzle89
edizzle89 Dork
8/6/18 11:55 a.m.
pinchvalve said:

  You will also have to lift the car enough to get the engine out, so plan on lots of jacks, stands and cribbing.  

I found out it is possible to just put the trans in from the bottom and drop the engine in from the top (minus intake and exhaust manifolds) and mate them together in the middle then mount it in the chassis, it took some elbow grease and a couple guys to make it happen but works pretty decent if you cant get the car higher then your average jack stands.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
8/6/18 12:09 p.m.

Idea for lifting car...

A wood deck car trailer with the center boards removed is not a bad portable lift...

Jerry
Jerry UberDork
8/6/18 3:55 p.m.
Jim Pettengill said:

Engine cover to clear the intercooler?  I know the SC had a different, tsaler cover, don't know if it's actually required.

Probably.  I had an 87 and an 88 SC, pretty sure that intercooler sits awful high.  I remember the battery location being different, but doubt that's something you guys need worry about.

pimpm3
pimpm3 SuperDork
8/6/18 6:13 p.m.

I used to pull the engine and tranny in my ita car out the bottom.  You lower the engine tranny combo onto the legs of the engine hoist.  You then use the hoist to  lift the back of the car high enough to  pull the engine out as it sits on the legs.  Easy peasy. ..

The high mounted intercooler issue can be solved by cutting an appropriately sized hole in the engine cover.  Robbie can find the correct engine cover later...

Robbie
Robbie PowerDork
8/6/18 10:43 p.m.
SVreX said:

Idea for lifting car...

A wood deck car trailer with the center boards removed is not a bad portable lift...

Good idea!

Robbie
Robbie PowerDork
8/6/18 10:44 p.m.

In reply to pimpm3 :

+1 intercooler hole

Jim Pettengill
Jim Pettengill HalfDork
8/6/18 11:48 p.m.

Or just temporarily remove the engine cover.

GIRTHQUAKE
GIRTHQUAKE Reader
8/10/18 1:03 p.m.

In reply to Robbie :

First, get ahold of OldSkelwToy for head porting and other basic info- the guy has been messing with 4A-GEs for years. I'll go through everything play-by-play. Also, join a Facebook MR2 group- I'm apart of "AW11 Idea Dump" and they are all certified madlads, with some being GRM-ers.

1. The only source for SC axels is from MatrixGarage and they are some ~$750 last I checked. You will still need the proper hubs and other ancilliary bits for it to fit. Thankfully, the stock C50/C52 can easily handle the power of the 4AG-ZE, so I would just stick with it and upgrade hte clutch and flywheel. You can also bolt in the S54 trans from the 2.0L NA SW20 MR2 (the second gen)- it's axels will slot right in and the engine will bolt right up.

2. Yep, see 1.

3. I *think* so. Many guys that have done turbo 4As use the Mark III Supra pump- more flow, but fits right into the holder and is also directly wired.

4. If you DO the E153 I think they still work just fine. I haven't heard of any issue.

5. A Few changes, mostly with the MAF/O2 sensor, supercharger clutch/dual fuel system, and I *think* fuel injectors. A -GZE ECU can handle up to 8-10 pounds of boost.

6. Water pump, alternator and exhaust will be the same as an N/A 4A-GE. Thottle body and intake will be different if A-GZE.

7.I would upgrade the intercooler and get it out of the engine bay. Toyota has a long history of putting in "just enough" that continued to the turbo SW20. If 4A-GZE, i've never heard of anyone needing a blow off valve.

9. I cannot but others might. Check with Facebook MR2 groups

10. Hard to find for 4A-GZE, but I think toyota used them for awhile since the Supercharged 4A stuck around in japan.

11. ?

12. Likely just fuel with premium just in case.

Go with silicon aftermarket Rad hoses, save yourself the effort. Prepare for some struggle with htem. Fuel lines should require just new returns, but the main lines to the injectors are crimped- but they hsould be just fine.

Robbie
Robbie PowerDork
8/10/18 1:39 p.m.

In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :

THAT is really helpful to confirm some of my previous findings! thanks! (psst, are you coming to the challenge?)

singleslammer
singleslammer PowerDork
8/10/18 3:01 p.m.
  1. Axles - need to match the transmission - The only source for SC axels is from MatrixGarage and they are some ~$750 last I checked. You will still need the proper hubs and other ancilliary bits for it to fit. Thankfully, the stock C50/C52 can easily handle the power of the 4AG-ZE, so I would just stick with it and upgrade hte clutch and flywheel. You can also bolt in the S54 trans from the 2.0L NA SW20 MR2 (the second gen)- it's axels will slot right in and the engine will bolt right up. 
  2. Rear hubs - if we have the sc axles we need the sc hubs... (https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/aw11-supercharging-for-rallycross-on-a-budget/139627/page1/) - See #1
  3. Fuel pump - sounds like the supercharged version got a better pump? -  I *think* so. Many guys that have done turbo 4As use the Mark III Supra pump- more flow, but fits right into the holder and is also directly wired.
  4. Shifter cables - these might be slightly different than NA shifter cables, I dunno yet if they are close enough to work - bueller? - If you DO the E153 I think they still work just fine. I haven't heard of any issue.
  5. Ecu/engine wiring loom -  A Few changes, mostly with the MAF/O2 sensor, supercharger clutch/dual fuel system, and I *think* fuel injectors. A -GZE ECU can handle up to 8-10 pounds of boost.
  6. Alternator/waterpump/intake/throttlebody/exhaust manifold/etc (if the extra engine hasn't been disassembled these are all probably there, I hope) - Water pump, alternator and exhaust will be the same as an N/A 4A-GE. Thottle body and intake will be different if A-GZE.
  7. intercooler and tubing (BOV? extra other necessary accessories in the intake system for an 80's supercharged factory toyota?) - I would upgrade the intercooler and get it out of the engine bay. Toyota has a long history of putting in "just enough" that continued to the turbo SW20. If 4A-GZE, i've never heard of anyone needing a blow off valve.
  8. Clutch pedal + master + slave cylinder + any related tubing, I think we will also need a brake pedal from a MT car
  9. Mounts - there are 3 transmission mounts and 1 engine mount on MR2s. The rubber pieces and the car side are (I THINK) interchangeable, but the metal bracketry bolted to the trans might be slightly different, can anyone confirm? -  I cannot but others might. Check with Facebook MR2 groups
  10. Engine sensors, like MAF and o2 - the rest I would think (hope) are still assembled to the motor -  Hard to find for 4A-GZE, but I think toyota used them for awhile since the Supercharged 4A stuck around in japan
  11. MT shifter itself
  12. Do we need that "regular or premium fuel" dashboard switch or can we just hardwire that to premium? - Likely just fuel with premium just in case

Placed together for easier reading

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