Capacitors

I know this has been brought up before, but my dad just sent me this video and I found this interesting. This guy apparently has been using them in place of his battery for a while.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3x_kYq3mHM&list=PLkRyrnKAG-hYcCf9_J0vxKbIiptOgSLyB

Sorry if it's a repost.

What a finely maintained automobile. Also I didn't know that socks were an effective electrical insulator.

It is an interesting idea, would work well to save weight. I wonder how long the small ones hold a charge.

Hmmm...

I've got a couple motorcycles in the garage that I might try that on.

Shawn

Looks like it would be cheaper than a decent battery as well

Super capacitors have the ability to store a huge amount of power, however the caps will bleed down after a few hours.

The idea is valid on a race car but on a daily driver you would need a jump start every morning

Running caps on kick start motorcycles has been done for a while. Once the engine is running the capacitor will keep the turn signals and other stuff working as if the battery was present.

Battery: A collection of cells that store electrons, then releases them in measured amounts depending on the load. Can store power for a number of years.

Capacitor: Stores electrons, then releases all of them in anywhere from milliseconds to a few seconds at the most. Power bleeds off, usually within minutes if not topped off with more electrons.

That's why one should never monkey around near the airbag stuff for at least 15 minutes after the battery cable has been disconnected. Coupla nice-sized capacitors storing power for igniting the sodium azide.

fujioko wrote: Super capacitors have the ability to store a huge amount of power, however the caps will bleed down after a few hours. The idea is valid on a race car but on a daily driver you would need a jump start every morning Running caps on kick start motorcycles has been done for a while. Once the engine is running the capacitor will keep the turn signals and other stuff working as if the battery was present.

You should watch some of his other videos. He let it sit from Friday night till Monday morning and the voltage dropped from 13.6 to 10 but it still started the car. He has been running the caps daily for six months. He ran the radio for a half hour and the voltage dropped to 10 but still started the car. Later he added a small 2.5 watt solar panel placed on the dash that keeps the caps topped up when the sun is out.

Jerry From LA wrote: Battery: A collection of cells that store electrons, then releases them in measured amounts depending on the load. Can store power for a number of years. Capacitor: Stores electrons, then releases all of them in anywhere from milliseconds to a few seconds at the most. Power bleeds off, usually within minutes if not topped off with more electrons. That's why one should never monkey around near the airbag stuff for at least 15 minutes after the battery cable has been disconnected. Coupla nice-sized capacitors storing power for igniting the sodium azide.

has anyone ever had an airbag actually explode in their faces while working on it?

i got curious and dove into the steering wheel from my Neon to see what makes the airbag work... i ground, pried, and banged on it until i found this thing, and not once did it blow up in my face..

i didn't see any capacitors of any kind within the steering wheel or column- once it was unplugged it simply couldn't go off..

Another nice thing about the capacitors, although they do discharge over time, I don't think it causes any harm (other than needing to charge them). Most batteries are damaged if the voltage gets too low, especially for long periods of time.

Mazda uses a capacitor system in the new 6 as part of the clutched alternator iE-Loop system to help mileage. I wondered how they are bleeding voltage out slowly instead of dumping all the juice at one time. I thought that capacitors would only discharge everything at one time in a voltage spike.

The use of a capacitor instead of a battery was a motorcycle "trick" from decades ago. Back when bikes had kick starters and lots were 6 volts. It would work, but only if there was enough juice to fire the ignition. As a result, many still had to carry a battery in parallel with the capacity, albet a much smaller one.

Or convert to a magneto ignition. With a magneto ignition and a kick starter, all the battery did was stabilize the juice when the engine was running, letting the light glow without dimming a lot when the engine was idling. A necessity to meet DOT headlight requirements.

It's valid, it would work, but on a motorcycle with a little battery, it gained you only a pound or two of weight reduction. Back then too, motorcycle batteries were notorious for failing within a year of use. So a capacitor would last longer.

That guys testing seems to debunk the theory that they go dead in a short period of time.

I like the solar panel idea to suplement the caps. I also liked the duel system he fabricated. Seems like he is on to somthing. Heack adding it in parelell with a solar panel as a backup power that you can switch to or add it as a booster for your starter. Yes caps can discharge all at once but i think the starter will only take as much as it needs and thus the drain on the caps is not instant.

Yes, any electrical power source battery, capacitor, wall outlet, etc will provide (up to its own limits) as much power as whatever you attach draws.

much like your car battery can run a radio or a starter, wall can run the iPod or the hair dryer, etc

it is true that capacitors have the ability to discharge everything quite quickly, but it would be a lot of Amps or current. The capacitor will never have more voltage than what you charged it with (I guess you could have some inductive spikes caused by high levels of current change in your circuitry - like a coil, but a theoretical cap will never have excess voltage)

Capacitor and battery also have substantially different discharge curves with regards to voltage and amperage drop. Which generally makes a battery a better choice for a vehicular charging/starting system.

novaderrik wrote:

Jerry From LA wrote: Battery: A collection of cells that store electrons, then releases them in measured amounts depending on the load. Can store power for a number of years. Capacitor: Stores electrons, then releases all of them in anywhere from milliseconds to a few seconds at the most. Power bleeds off, usually within minutes if not topped off with more electrons. That's why one should never monkey around near the airbag stuff for at least 15 minutes after the battery cable has been disconnected. Coupla nice-sized capacitors storing power for igniting the sodium azide. </blockquote has anyone ever had an airbag actually explode in their faces while working on it? i got curious and dove into the steering wheel from my Neon to see what makes the airbag work... i ground, pried, and banged on it until i found this thing, and not once did it blow up in my face.. i didn't see any capacitors of any kind within the steering wheel or column- once it was unplugged it simply couldn't go off..

I recently removed the airbags from a mid-'90's car and didn't find any capacitors. FYI, it's illegal to dispose of airbags without setting them off first. That was fun!

Gas Gas built a fuel injected 4 stroke dirt bike which had no battery or electric start. The deal was it had a magneto and a big capacitor, you kicked it once to charge the cap which then powered the EFI module and fuel pump and kicked it the second time to start it. Last I heard they had dropped it in favor of a battery/electric start setup, those are quicker to start.

Air bag capacitors are not necessarily in the air bag itself. The 1980's/1990's Ford systems had them under the dash, for instance. I believe the newer systems incorporate them into the air bag module (occupant restraint controller) itself.

In the early 90s I asked an electrical engineer if there was a way to release the energy stored in a capacitor over time. He said "not that he was aware of" A year or two ago I found a story that said it had been done and there was more experimentation to make it an efficient way to store electricity.

I just googled "slow release capacitor", I don't have time right now to read it but there's a world of info. available. Also there are circuits shown on google images that may be what the guy in the videos was using. All things considered, I think we will begin seeing more and more of these in use in the future.

So the more area of a capacitor's plates and the distance between the plates determines the rating. So a very large capacitor with a lot of applied voltage stores a lot of energy. It may be that capacitors have the potential to be used in off-grid storeage systems. That's what got me interested in them in the first place.

novaderrik wrote:

Jerry From LA wrote: Battery: A collection of cells that store electrons, then releases them in measured amounts depending on the load. Can store power for a number of years. Capacitor: Stores electrons, then releases all of them in anywhere from milliseconds to a few seconds at the most. Power bleeds off, usually within minutes if not topped off with more electrons. That's why one should never monkey around near the airbag stuff for at least 15 minutes after the battery cable has been disconnected. Coupla nice-sized capacitors storing power for igniting the sodium azide.

has anyone ever had an airbag actually explode in their faces while working on it? i got curious and dove into the steering wheel from my Neon to see what makes the airbag work... i ground, pried, and banged on it until i found this thing, and not once did it blow up in my face.. i didn't see any capacitors of any kind within the steering wheel or column- once it was unplugged it simply couldn't go off..

Airbag capacitors:

http://www.epcos.com/epcos-en/177926/products/application-guides/automotive/safety/airbag-control-units/aluminum-electrolytic-capacitors

http://www.elna.co.jp/en/capacitor/alumi/catalog/pdf/rje_e.pdf

Example of airbag capacitor location and potential problems working with them:

http://blog.kf7lze.net/2012/08/13/1991-mazda-miata-air-bag-diagnostic-computer-repair-cars/

I guess the answer always is Miata.