My nephew did a bonehead move. He bought a salvage-title Infinity G35 from MD to bring back to PA. Long story short, he didn't get the notary part on the bill of sale which is required for PA's "enhanced inspection" required on branded titles. This is his first dive into car ownership (he's 18) and has tried digging in for information about other ways to go about it and hasn't found anything. The last time I did it was 20 years ago and required old-school stuff like return-receipt snail mail and a notice in the legal section of the newspaper which let you go to the county court and get a court order for DMV to issue a title. I doubt that is a possibility, nor do I remember anything about it to tell him how to start.
He tried contacting the seller (shady AF) but the seller promptly blocked him on FB and (we assume) blocked his phone number. He called every notary he could find hoping to find one with questionable morals and found nothing.
So unless you all have some good ideas about getting a PA title without a notary, here's the FBM ad if anyone is curious. The car is actually quite nice. I don't think there is anything wrong with the car. It was some kind of rear end damage that caused the salvage title and was repaired poorly, but it runs and drives just fine.
Ideas on how to get a title?
I'm confused. He HAS a signed MD salvage cert, or he has no documentation at all? Something in between?
yeah, the ad says 'no title'... in which case he's just bought a very nice track car or donor vehicle... but with a rebuilt title signed by the PO, he shouldn't have any issue.
I know this is a long con, but if he has the title, he could create a bill of sale to someone in a more friendly state, get it registered/retitled, and then another bill of sale back with pertinent non-shady notary requirements toget it titled in his name...?
I know in NH at least, as long as the title was printed as salvage-rebuilt, there is zero additional documentation needed for a title in my name.
When I have transferred salvage certs to PA, the notary generally gets very annoyed first (you got berkeleyed! this isn't gonna get you a title, this vehicle is salvage!) and then calms down when I explain that I know that and just need it turned into a PA salvage cert so I can go ahead with my enhanced inspection. Not saying this is that simple, but if I were 18 and that was my first notary experience I probably would have left empty handed.
In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :
He has a signed MD (salvage/rebuilt) title and a signed bill of sale. To be kosher in PA, it had to be notarized in witness of the seller and buyer. The car was rebuilt and re-titled in MD with the brand
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
Find a different (worse) notary. As far as I know, you should be able to get that transferred without the seller present, it will just revert to salvage and need an enhanced inspection again. I wouldn't even present the bill of sale unless asked directly for it.
What part of PA?
golfduke said:
yeah, the ad says 'no title'... in which case he's just bought a very nice track car or donor vehicle... but with a rebuilt title signed by the PO, he shouldn't have any issue.
I know this is a long con, but if he has the title, he could create a bill of sale to someone in a more friendly state, get it registered/retitled, and then another bill of sale back with pertinent non-shady notary requirements toget it titled in his name...?
I know in NH at least, as long as the title was printed as salvage-rebuilt, there is zero additional documentation needed for a title in my name.
Right... he can't sell it with a title because it's not in his name to sell.
I did mention selling it to a friend in a non-notary state, but his friends all live in PA. He's kinda thrown up his hands after 3 months of not having success and his parents and I are being helpful when he asks, but also not "doing it for him."
I'm actually posting this because he asked for my help and sadly I couldn't advise much.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
Find a different (worse) notary. As far as I know, you should be able to get that transferred without the seller present, it will just revert to salvage and need an enhanced inspection again.
He's not looking for a clean title. He doesn't care how it's branded, he just wants to register and drive it. PA requires the notary stamp which he doesn't have.
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
So the ask is to find someone to title it in a non-notary state and then "sell" it back to him with a notary? Am I getting the correctly?
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:
PA requires the notary stamp which he doesn't have.
This is the problem, and I believe it can be worked around. I have transferred a MD title to PA without a notary stamp, just a signed title and nothing else. Not all notaries are equal, I'd show up at a few in person and just see what happens. It can't hurt, right?
hunter47 said:
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
So the ask is to find someone to title it in a non-notary state and then "sell" it back to him with a notary? Am I getting the correctly?
The genuine ask is for anyone who might know how to get a title properly in PA given his oops. I didn't really think about asking anyone here to buy/sell mostly because then that's two more times of paying taxes on a vehicle sale. It doesn't seem immoral or nefarious, just expensive.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:
PA requires the notary stamp which he doesn't have.
This is the problem, and I believe it can be worked around. I have transferred a MD title to PA without a notary stamp, just a signed title and nothing else. Not all notaries are equal, I'd show up at a few in person and just see what happens. It can't hurt, right?
Right. I have purchased lots of out-of-state vehicles here. PA requires notary for in-state sales, and they adopt the rules of whatever state you're buying from. When I got my van in NC, they are a notary state, so PA required the stamp. Jersey doesn't, so PA doesn't require it.
Evidently they do require it for branded titles though.
Again, I've been told all sorts of stuff by tag places- it's why I have a favorite and a 2nd and 3rd in line at this point. They don't always have the same answer and I'd try a few more in this scenario before giving up and selling the car.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:
In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :
He has a signed MD (salvage/rebuilt) title and a signed bill of sale. To be kosher in PA, it had to be notarized in witness of the seller and buyer. The car was rebuilt and re-titled in MD with the brand
Are you saying PA requires a MD seller to travel to PA to sell his car (if the buyer is PA)?
I can't believe that is true.
My guess is the rules of MD were all that needed to be followed.
Now, get that MD title converted to a PA title. This should not require anything from the MD person.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:
hunter47 said:
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
So the ask is to find someone to title it in a non-notary state and then "sell" it back to him with a notary? Am I getting the correctly?
The genuine ask is for anyone who might know how to get a title properly in PA given his oops. I didn't really think about asking anyone here to buy/sell mostly because then that's two more times of paying taxes on a vehicle sale. It doesn't seem immoral or nefarious, just expensive.
Florida is a no notary state. You can get around the taxes by placing a small amount, $300 let's say ... in Florida where I am that would be $21.
The problems I see are, you will have to pay for a Florida title (~$90 iirc). And the main one is that they need to see the car to verify the VIN. So I would say Florida is out.
If it was me, I would go the multiple notary route until I find an understanding one. Or investigate the Vt route.
John Welsh said:
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:
In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :
He has a signed MD (salvage/rebuilt) title and a signed bill of sale. To be kosher in PA, it had to be notarized in witness of the seller and buyer. The car was rebuilt and re-titled in MD with the brand
Are you saying PA requires a MD seller to travel to PA to sell his car (if the buyer is PA)?
I can't believe that is true.
My guess is the rules of MD were all that needed to be followed.
Now, get that MD title converted to a PA title. This should not require anything from the MD person.
No, you just find a local MD notary near where you buy the car. You both stop in, sign, stamp, and leave. Then you take the notarized stuff to the PA DMV or a satellite office and you do the rest alone.
Getting PA to transfer the title required that person to sign in presence of a notary. Since my nephew didn't require that of the seller, he's stuck
Slippery said:
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:
hunter47 said:
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
So the ask is to find someone to title it in a non-notary state and then "sell" it back to him with a notary? Am I getting the correctly?
The genuine ask is for anyone who might know how to get a title properly in PA given his oops. I didn't really think about asking anyone here to buy/sell mostly because then that's two more times of paying taxes on a vehicle sale. It doesn't seem immoral or nefarious, just expensive.
Florida is a no notary state. You can get around the taxes by placing a small amount, $300 let's say ... in Florida where I am that would be $21.
The problems I see are, you will have to pay for a Florida title (~$90 iirc). And the main one is that they need to see the car to verify the VIN. So I would say Florida is out.
If it was me, I would go the multiple notary route until I find an understanding one. Or investigate the Vt route.
Every state is so different. In TX, for instance, they don't even ask about the sale price. You are assessed a tax based on a black book value, period. You can appeal it without success or just take it up the tailpipe. In PA you can say whatever you want, but they audit every one. If they see a G35 sold for $100, they'll send you a tax bill and you have to appeal which is usually successful. In CA they charge tax on what you pay, but if it was unregistered for any period of time you have to pay the back registration. That's one of the reasons some CA muscle cars are so cheap. If they haven't been registered since 1972, you're paying about $200 x 50 years to get it registered.
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
So, a MD rule was not followed?
That makes it hard and your solution might not come in PA but rather your solution might come from a "friendly" MD notary.
From what I can find, the title doesn't get notarized for a MD transfer- only the bill of sale does. Try not having a bill of sale.
John Welsh said:
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
So, a MD rule was not followed?
That makes it hard and your solution might not come in PA but rather your solution might come from a "friendly" MD notary.
No, a PA rule wasn't followed. PA requires that branded titles have the bill of sale notarized regardless of where they come from. My nephew didn't read the rules before he left with the car, and the seller won't respond.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:
From what I can find, the title doesn't get notarized for a MD transfer- only the bill of sale does. Try not having a bill of sale.
Notarized bill of sale is required. Because MD doesn't do notary on titles, you can't notarize the title. PA wants that little stamp on it, so it has to go on the bill of sale.
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
All I'm trying to say is, I don't think PA requires it- I think the tag place he's going to does.
